Got a place from waiting list now not sure

[Tea1Sugar]

I'm pissing myself and dp off and have come to mn for some impartial advice.

Back story: dd1 is in the pre-school of new ish primary (currently only pre-school to year2) and has a reception place in September. Thus far it has no ofsted report of much data to track progress. It is a brand new build full of mod cons etc but little outdoor space. Initially this was our first choice but some small but significance fuck ups by the school put me off so I put her on the waiting list of our no2 school.

No2 school is a long established church school
which for years parents have started sending their toddlers to church in the hope of getting a place. We're not church goers however. This lovely school previously graded "good" got a "needs to improve" ofsted in November.

[ChocolateWombat]

Wondered if the new school you were offered in Surrey was one which is in a temporary building,an waiting a move to its proper building in a couple of years?
If so, it is the one I was referring to in my example above. Could well be that the Church school you have also accepted a place in is the one that I mentioned,mooing from Good to Requires Improvement recently, whilst still having better results than the 'Good' school on the nearby council estate!?

[Tea1Sugar]

I just think that's where the standard of education is more crucial. And we couldn't afford both kids to go private from reception-year 13.

[Tallandgracefulmum]

Tea1Sugar may I ask, why are you considering private for secondary for and not primary or at least from year 3?

[SueDNim]

I agree with Milk that the impact of a poor OFSTED can destabilise a school by causing staff to leave. It's really sad as there aren't queues of unemployed, outstanding teachers just waiting to take their places.

[Tea1Sugar]

I'm in surrey but not London border

[MilkRunningOutAgain]

Our school got requires improvement about 2 years ago. It is settling down again now but it caused a massive upheaval ,change of head, big teacher turn over , most clubs stopped completely for the best part of a year while teachers flapped about changing things and was the cause in itself of a lot of disruption for the kids. My DD has had a succession of supply teachers and no settled teacher for over a year, and guess what, the school accepts that her class has not made adequate progress for the last 2 years, the head told us this is a special meeting last week. My DD has made no progress in maths and just a single sub level in writing this year , she is now officially behind where she should be in maths and writing . My DS has not been badly effected, his year has retained good teachers so the effect is uneven. Overall the school has definitely changed, though neither for the better or worse, it's much the same, just different. So do remember that requires improvement can cause disruption.

Requir improvement was because of poor results in ks1, and poor tracking of pupil progress overall, though ks2 results have always been good, in fact ks2 has been worse since the ofsted due to all the teacher turn over.

[BookieTubules]

Are you in Surrey/London borders by any chance? Think I know the two schools you mean if so.

[Galena]

Glad the choice was clear.

[Tea1Sugar]

Adore the church school She's in !

[Hoppinggreen]

Will you actually have a choice though? If school 2 is over subscribed and is a church school ( which you don't attend) will you get a place?

[bearwithspecs]

Wombat makes a good point. The early intake of a new school is often a mixture of those who actively want it and everyone who didn't get a place else where or who moved into the area late. Every parent will want it to work out well. This is certainly the case in our area where there have been several new schools. Hopefully a closer second look will make he decision

[ELR]

Always go with your heart as that's your gut instinct! Good luck looking around.

[Saracen]

If it's a toss-up, I'd go for the school which is harder to get into. That way if you want to change later on, you stand a chance of being able to swap to the other school.

...on the other hand, do you have younger children? It would be bad if your older child got into a popular school through a bit of a fluke (e.g. fewer applicants than usual this year), and her younger siblings can't get in. Then you could end up with children at two different schools. Sibling priority, even if it applies to the school, might not be enough to get them in.

[Tea1Sugar]

It's new school head's second headship and I think, though not sure, church school's third but has been at this one for about 7 years. Again, not sure.

I'm going to look round both again today during school hours. Need to respond to the council with final decision by Friday. Kinda just want someone to make the decision for me.

[Kveta]

Galena, the school we have chosen for ds sounds very similar to the one you've chosen - not the best local reputation, lots of EAL, FSM, single parents, but god, what a lovely school it is. Very individual, every child matters, every policy can be adapted to fit the children of it doesn't suit them. Sod the ofsted report, we are going with what fits our child best!

[ChocolateWombat]

I think we can see where you are headed with this.

New schools by nature have no past results. This often works against them, but there is nothing they can do about it. They are often built due to new housing. They are often on the edge of towns, because that is where there is space and not near the more affluent,milder areas of housing.
In the early days, they are often filled with pupils who did not get their first choices, so can have pupils from a wide range if geographic areas. All of this is a generalisation of course.
The Head is vitally important. What is their background...ie successful Hradship elsewhere, ....or not? Are they dynamic and impressive. Are they attracting a good range of teachers, not just NQTs? leadership and teaching are more important than new classrooms and fancy gadgets.

Given a choice, I would have to be VERY convinced about the new school, but I guess Im a bit cautious and like a solid track record to look at.

[Tea1Sugar]

It seems ofsted is a mere snapshot of school life. The church school got better than national average year 6 results where out of a cohort of 60 kids only three got level 3, the majority level 5 and 18 level 6. New school only has up to year 2 at present so no way of comparing like for like results.

Why is a reception place so stressful?!

[Lucked]

I am in Scotland and when it came to sending DS to nursery my feeling was that the one with the (slightly) worse care commission report was the best for us. 18 months on and it has just got the best report in the area. The staff were really proactive with the points raised in the previous report and have worked really hard.

If you think the HT is on the ball I would be inclined to go with the church school as things will likely turn around again.

[Galena]

The church school locally has always been very well regarded and oversubscribed. Full of middle class families. Dreadful attitude towards DD's mild disability - basically how DD would have to fit in with the school and if she couldn't, then tough.

The school we chose is regarded as a dreadful school and always undersubscribed. The clientele is generally lower income families with lots of EAL and single parents. The school cares for each child as an individual and makes small changes to the school to make school life easier for particular children (I.e. sensory sensitive child struggled with the bell going off in one long noise, so it is now 'pulsed' which he copes better with).

[Luggagecarousel]

My DDs school just got "requires improvement" because of poor attendance and punctuality in years 11, 12 and 13, particularly in retake GCSE classes.

What this means in practice is that the disinterested students are not present, and the motivated ones are sitting in small classes with masses of individual attention.

A poor ofsted result could actually be a good thing for the students. I just hope they don't waste a lot of time and energy getting the reluctant ones in!

[Fideliney]

Yep. You're going to get flamed.

Why use the Cword?

[Tea1Sugar]

I'll be flamed for saying this but the new school has a lot more err, chavvy kids and parents, the church school more middle class.

[Soggysandpit]

Private for secondary - does that mean doing the 11+? In which case you want to consider the attitude of the schools to the exam, will they help, will they be actively obstructive as some are?

[ChocolateWombat]

I would look very carefully at the Ofsted Reports. I would see exactly what the weakness was that meant they got requires improvement.
I would also look at the catchment areas carefully to see if they are different.

Near us, is a popular Church School, which had been GOOD and now NEEDS IMPROVEMENT. It had been very high achieving. The results have dipped and this seems to be why it NEEDS IMPROVEMENT. However the results are still significantly better than the nearby GOOD school on the council estate. Realise the Church school has people entering at a higher point, so they should get better results.
Interestingly, most people would still prefer the Church school, partly because of its intake and also because traditionally it has done well.

Personally, I am not bothered about shiny new facilities. The new school in This sense wouldn't impress me. I'd be keener on a tried and tested established staff. It is the teachers,not the facilities which make the difference.

[bearwithspecs]

How do the extra curricular compare and what aspects of school life are most important to you ?