Is this how children learn to read these days?

[Bananaketchup]

Am genuinely asking. DD is in reception. She started late at the school and has only been in full-time since xmas, so they don't really know her too well. She loves being read to, she can sound out words when she's in the mood, but is also one for the easy life. She reads once a week 1-1 with a TA at school, and brings the book home afterwards until it's swapped a week later. The books are of the 'this is a house, this is a garden' level. In her reading record it will say 'DD read the book and enjoyed it'. But when she reads it at home she rattles off the sentence on each page and has clearly just memorised it, and isn't actually reading. If I mix the page order up, she can't read it. If I hide the picture, she can't read it. She will make wild guesses without even trying to sound out the word e.g. she will guess 'the' for 'house', just pure guesses. This weekend she got in a strop because I wouldn't let her see the picture (as she was just guessing from this and not reading the words at all). She then said 'but Mrs X (The TA she reads with) says look at the picture, then read it'. So my question is (if you've got this far without dying of boredom), is this how children are taught to read - to look at the picture to know what the words say? Because DD isn't paying any attention to the words, just gabbling off what's in the picture, and I can't really see how this is teaching her to read. I am minded to speak to school, but don't want to be 'that' mum if this is genuinely a method children learn to read by, which I'm unaware of. Can anyone advise please?

[CharlesRyder]

Not the same but ours are in a similar corporate group. The group has taken over the entire authority so all the Ed Psychs, outreach teachers etc. all work for them now too whether they like it or not which they don't.

[mrz]

Isn't that from the old Devon site Millais ... thought they were either too lazy to remove or wanted to impress with other's work

[FrameyMcFrame]

late to the thread but a lot of reading as a skill is guessing and filling in the gaps. That's why picture cues are ok at this stage, it promotes a way of thinking that's entirely desirable as a skill

[Feenie]

Rubbish.

[KnickersOnOnesHead]

Not read the whole thread so sorry if any of this is repeated. Reception are taught to read using phonics now. My 5 year old is currently learning to read, and although he does look at the pictures, he uses his knowledge of phonics to read the actual words.

If you are not happy then write in her reading diary!

[maizieD]

late to the thread but a lot of reading as a skill is guessing and filling in the gaps.

No it isn'.

That's why picture cues are ok at this stage,

No they are not

it promotes a way of thinking

No it doesn't, it promotes guessing.

that's entirely desirable as a skill

Which is, of course, highly undesirable.

Do people have these wierd and illogical beliefs because that is the way they read or is it just not knowing anything about how the reading process works?

I should add that I love pictures in books, even as a very old adult. But they are there to enhance the text; not to give 'clues' as to what words might be.

Can I again recommend a thorough read of this:

tinyurl.com/oy7g9ro

[Feenie]

Do people have these wierd and illogical beliefs because that is the way they read or is it just not knowing anything about how the reading process works?

The latter, I think - and, in the case of some teachers, a refusal to even try to find out.

[mrz]

It's much easier to "teach" guessing and accept the wrong word than to teach a child to read acurately.

On another forum a teacher seriously couldn't understand why I wouldn't let the child read pan when the word in the text was pot... I wonder if she would like the doctor to put a pan on her broken leg

[Feenie]

That is shocking

[columngollum]

It takes up to 2 years of flashcards to learn to read ONE word


Where are you putting the flashcards?

[Feenie]

I know where I would like to put the flashcards....

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

The notes on the inside page of one of the newer reprints of the original ORT stories says something along the lines of 'many children will naturally read the sentence X as Y. Accept this as correct'.

I think the common mistake involved adding a word to the sentence that was written.

[TheCrackFox]

I know that anecdote does my equal data but I thought I would chip in anyway.

When DS1 started primary 1 (we live in Scotland so no reception year) he was sent home with ORT books and, well, it was an utter disaster. He was trying to remember the whole page, not the actual word. Despite constant reassurances from the teacher that this was "fine" or "normal" I knew it bloody wasn't. At the end of P1 he was on level 3 and this had been a big struggle and it tainted his view of school and learning.

Anyway, I decided that I would take over the teaching during the summer holidays so I invested in Jolly Phonics and set aside half an hour a day devoted to learning to read. He learnt how to sound out the alphabet and then blend letters successfully and he positively flourished.

After 2 weeks back at school he was promptly promoted to level 10 of ORT - a huge jump of 7 levels.

Now, I had the time, money and patience to do this but a lot of parents don't. Some teachers need to realise that look and say is shit for some children and is actively failing them.

[Feenie]

At the end of P1 he was on level 3 and this had been a big struggle and it tainted his view of school and learning.

Yes, the reading is easily fixed by good phonics teaching - but picking a child's self-esteem off the floor can take much, much longer

Well done to TheCrackFox and her ds

[TheCrackFox]

I am quite well educated but we live in a very mixed area (a proper comprehensive school) and it does worry me about children whose parents aren't as pushy as me. I can remember learning to read (freaky memory) and found it exciting learning how to find out how to break the code and I can vividly recall learning about the "the magic e" when I was 6 and thinking "I wish someone had told me earlier, makes so much more sense now."

DS1 has just started high school now and bloody loves it but if I hadn't intervened early on I strongly believe his love for learning would have been permanently damaged.

[Feenie]

Had exactly the same with my ds in a leafy lane school - they couldn't understand and weren't really interested in why ds was upset at being unable to read words given to him in ORT in Y1 like 'naughty', 'furniture' and 'curtains'. They taught phonics three times a week instead of daily 'because of time table constraints' and were unconcerned that two thirds of their 60 Y1 children were still at Reception level phonics-wise.

I took over using decodable texts and, like your ds, he rocketed several levels in 3 months and was so much happier.

His school is due an Ofsted now and panicking big time.

[mrz]

"It takes up to 2 years of flashcards to learn to read ONE word"

"Where are you putting the flashcards?"

I imagine tinytalker puts them in her toolkit so she can employ them whenever a child needs to memorise "gymnastics" columngollum

[teacherwith2kids]

I think it is unfortunate for the reputation of phonics as a way of leqarning to read that it is sop often REALLY badly taught.

I suspect that many of those children who 'didn't get on with phonics' were just not taught it very well, perhaps by teacjhers who didn't understand it or didn't really believe in it so went quickly fior mixed methods instead.

The difference betweem rhetoric ('we teach phonics') and reality ('well we do a bit of Jolly Phonics for a bit before we go back to doing what we've always done, supported by non-decodeable early readers') is, IME, huge in many schools.

[Feenie]

I think you're right - poor training and poor subject knowledge are also big problems. You only have to look at comments on this thread, such as English children will never learn to read through phonics alone, it's just not possible to find some prime examples.

[columngollum]

I'm not advocating flashcards (or maybe I am) but at the moment it's taking my 2yo about ten minutes per new word on flashcards. They're words like: off, in, top, cat, bus somehow rabbit got in there, don't ask me how. We seem to have a continuous problem with the word the.

All in all I think I'm at the same point this year as I was with her sister 3 years ago. We are reading sentences ( albeit simple ones: the cat sat on the mat) using sight recognition. (And vague/sporadic phonics)

[columngollum]

Feenie, they won't, though. That's your problem!

[maizieD]

The proof of the pudding will come, cg, in a few years time when they just can't 'memorise' any more words as wholes. I hope for their sakes that they manage to survive your teaching 'method' but you're on the path that has left many children struggling.

[columngollum]

The elder daughter switched to sounding out of her own accord. It's too early to tell what the little one will do.

The struggling path can't be followed to my door because if I had seen my children struggling, no doubt I would have accommodated their difficulties.

I can't be blamed for other people's errors.