can't be 'polite' and good any longer....

[swallowedAfly]

ds goes to a village primary with all the subsequent over-reliance on parents wealth, education, time, etc. re: assuming sahms are the norm, money is plentiful for fanciful trips and activities, we all know how to sew up costumes at the drop of a hat etc.

that's fine. i chose to live here. however....

homework is way over the top in terms of quantity and right from day one of school. one part of homework (there is loads) is the 'learning log' which is pretended to be something children could do indepndently and consolidates learning. except in reality it is not, by a long shot.

i've put up with it and put up with and felt enslaven to doing it until today when i've had enough. this week for ds (6yo and one of the most able in his year) it says, "show me what you've learned about number bonds up to 20 and what patterns you can see". then there's a blank page.

i don't know why (because this is far from the worst that's come home) but today i've had enough and found myself writing on the page that i have no idea what the learning objective is, what outcomes they're hoping for or how the hell they see this as differentiated. i've also asked how they think a parent with numeracy or literacy problems would tackle this task and whether they would actually set this as a task in class to 6yos and expect a meaningful outcome.

there is no context, no structure, no literacy support, no prompts nothing. same as ever. sometimes the tasks don't even relate to anything they've been learning.

am i totally unreasonable or would you after a year or so be fed up too? i am (if it's not obvious) an ex teacher and i know what education is supposed to be about and this is not it. homework should be meaningful. how could a 6yo read that question and face a blank page and do something a teacher could look at and assess to see what they've learnt? they couldn't.

on top of this learning log (given on a friday and expected in by tuesday) daily reading and signing of reading book is expected plus other bits and bobs. he's 6! he's been getting this since 5 at a point where some kids couldn't even write let alone face a blank page and an open ended task and produce something yet they'd get in trouble if they didn't. this is just a test of parents surely? and an unfair one given it assumes knowledge and literacy that some parents won't have?

sorry for long random rant but help! i'm not playing this game anymore and i'm ready to speak up. it's a joke.

[pokesandprodsforthelasttime]

My DD is 6 and gets no homework apart from reading books.

[swallowedAfly]

youhaveagoodpoint i believe we used to call them 'factors' - i may be wrong.

the best one recently was a 'explain what 'x' means' task - ds had never heard of it, i called other parents their children had never heard of it etc. literally the label goes in the book without ANY fucking reference to actual learning or progress.

i'd have been kicked out for such shitty work.

[minipie]

Christ swallowed I'm with you all the way. I have a 10 month old and am terrified if that is what a 6 year old's homework looks like.

I was a very academic 6 year old and I wouldn't have known where to start with a completely open ended question like the one in your OP. "what patterns you can see" would probably have got me thinking about whether the shapes of the numbers made a pattern on the page. I simply wouldn't have understood what they wanted of me.

As for "find out as much as you can about Guy Fawkes" - I probably wouldn't have written anything down, after all it's not actually a question is it? (I was a very literal minded child).

Jeez. What on earth is wrong with the "write down the number bonds from 1 to 10. Can you see a pattern in the results?" approach?

oh and when did they become number bonds rather than sums??

[PrincessScrumpy]

Erm, my dd is 5 and that task would take her about 15 minutes maximum. I can understand concerns over differentiating but as you say your ds is very able, perhaps there were different homework depending on ability? However I would have expected most 6yo dc to be able to do this. Writing 2 days of a food diary seems perfectly fair enough too to me - it's only 6 meals and maybe a list of snacks - would be a handful of words under a few headings. I don't see what this has to do with being a SAHM or having wealth?

My dd's school does have half termly meetings where parents can ask to be shown how dc are being taught certain things - perhaps you can ask for this kind of thing? Homework is a chance for you to speak to dc about what they've done at school and get them to show you what they're learning. It should be a fun conversation not hassle at this age.

[VodIsGod]

I just asked my 8yo what a number bond was and he looked at me like I was an idiot, then I asked my (just) 5yo to name a number bond and he listed three immediately.

I had no idea what they were! And I am a supposedly educated woman!!

Neither of my older sons get homework regularly other than reading and that's not expected every night. I remember one parents' meeting where the teachers said "if we can't teach them what we need to in all the hours they spend in school, we're not doing our job properly"....

[Oceansurf]

Maybe as an ex-teacher, you should also know that legally schools have to give homework, but you don't have to do it! So don't. Tell his class teacher he's not doing it. Sorted.

I agree with you tbh. It's all getting way too much for younger and younger children. As a primary teacher, I would also say that I refused to give homework unless it was differentiated (or else, as you rightly say, what is the point). In this instance, it just sounds as though the teacher is churning out what she/he thinks she/he is supposed to do.

If it makes you feel any better, I received homework for my daughter:

"Discuss Autumn. The changes in leaves and the weather'

She's 10 months old. And in nursery.

I blame Ofsted

[lifeissweet]

I used to teach in year 1 and I hated homework. Parents were always on my back about sending it home every week, but I always felt that it was a shocking waste of time for all involved. If it was for the purpose of assessing where the children were, then: a) it's my job to know that from formative assessment anyway; and b) I don't know if the child or the parent is completing it.

If it is for the child to practice what they've learned in class then, ok, but the time it takes to differentiate, prepare and mark it eats into time I could be doing more meaningful things. Added to the fact that the skills I really wanted them to be practicing at home were set weekly anyway - times tables or number bond practice, spellings and reading,

Those last things are quite enough on their own! I'd rather a child was reading extra books for pleasure or playing times tables games and getting secure with those than filling out a photocopied worksheet that tells me nothing I didn't already know and causes additional stress to all involved.

The learning log thing has been introduced at my school now. I don't much like it, to be honest, but there is an odd trend to do these things in order to encourage independent and creative thinking. At our last Ofsted we were told we would have been outstanding if we were giving more open ended tasks and fewer scaffolded and directed ones. I think the Head believes that these logs are a brilliant way to demonstrate this. I don't, but hey. I'm just a minion.

[PrincessScrumpy]

Just seen your ds's spellings - my dad used to say the same. Differentiation means to many teachers that the brighter the pupil the higher the quantity. Co the brighter you are the more you get punished. (df hated school and hated parents evenings when I was younger).

If dd doesn't understand something then rather than teach her myself (where there is always the danger I'll confuse things by teaching differently) I have in the past written in her workbook "dd has no recollection of learning this - please can you revisit it with her and let me know so I can support her with it at home" - this throws it back to the teacher and our teachers ask for this feedback so they know their teaching is working.

[sittinginthesun]

We all had the food diary one this term.

I think the problem isn't the actual homework, it's the way it's presented. I have a year 5, and a year 2. Every single piece of homework we have had has been explained to the child, so they can launch straight into it with little supervision. The only time I have to step in is if they get "stuck" and stop - I try and get it done in the time allowed.

Tbh, I haven't really understood ds1's maths homework for the last two years. He was doing long division in a most peculiar way this morning, so I left him to it.

In your shoes, I would raise this with the teacher. Good luck.

[Herisson]

I think your feelings about this are fine. I loathe homework for infant children and remain unconvinced about how important it is at junior level if it is, like this, just revisiting what they will have already done in class and hopefully (at a decent school) with some level of independent input. FWIW, DD in Y2 gets nothing more than reading as often as possible (usually four or so times a week for us with the school book, though she reads her own books more often) and one sheet of ten spellings which she is not tested on but which the teacher would like us to complete. Sometimes we do it and sometimes we don't. It depends on whether I think she can spell those words well already and whether she feels too tired or not. Same as Y1 for us. It doesn't take longer than ten minutes for her to do the spellings and I mostly use it as handwriting practice and ask her to concentrate on getting all her letters neat and the right size as that's her weakest thing. She is, by the way, working very well and achieving well and has not noticeably been held back by my giving her a few nights off when she seems to need it.

What I would say, though, is that perhaps the teaching at your school is not great if an open-ended task like this isn't something your son can make a stab at alone. DD would love a task of this kind and I know from observing in the classroom that nearly all the tasks they are asked to complete have some kind of open-ended component. I just asked her what she'd do and she said she would write down all the number bonds to twenty and then write something about the numbers making patterns and how the 1 to 10 number bonds carry on through the twenties and thirties and forties etc (which I suppose is the ultimate learning objective for this, to get them to notice how the numbers work).

[BehindLockNumberNine]

Uhm, number bonds are not factors. Factors are the numbers needed to multiply to get to a number, so 4 and 3 are factors of 12, as are 6 and 2.
As for the homework, are you sure ALL stickers are the same? You have seen them? All 30 of them?
And once you (or any parent) had read the sticker with the instructions to your child you could surely step back and let them get on with it.
Can they list number bonds to 20, how many can they list, can they spot a pattern? They stop when they have done as many as they can (or all of them). They write a simple sentence (or tell mum who scribbles on the paper) whether a patterns was found or not.
Not really that open ended.

I think you are making a slight meal of this to be honest.

[BadSeedsAddict]

Really interested in this, as we hasn't really thought through the reasons behind our DCs homework ; DH is of the opinion that it should be done in order that the child get a certificate and feel included/proud at the end of the term. No huge effort is made to produce an amazing piece of work, as the DCs are pretty resistant to homework and I don't think much to it myself. Far better that they enjoy being read a story and discussing it in a relaxed way, than being forced through a banal text about something they have no interest in, because it ticks boxes for the school. Love the comment about the anxious parents trying to show the school how much effort they put in. I did that for a while with FS1, never again

[BadSeedsAddict]

DS1, curse these fat fingers.

[PuzzleRocks]

Would it make any difference if you had more time? Ours is given out Monday with the expectation it be handed in the following Monday. DD1 (y2) is enjoying her homework so far but I suspect a shorter timeframe would be a different matter as she does several after school clubs.

[teatimesthree]

This is a really interesting conversation as it is challenging my own thoughts about homework.

I don't really see the problem with this sort of homework. DD is in Y1 at a very mixed inner city primary and is expected to read every evening, has a few spellings every week, and has some homework to do in a 'sounds book'. They are also expected to practice joined up writing.

To be honest, I'm pleased that the school have high expectations. However, I accept this is a bit "I'm all right Jack" as she enjoys it.

As a parent, I'd love an open-ended task like that. I find all the learning objective stuff a bit prescriptive and spoon-feeding. But again, that's just my own preference - not saying you are wrong!

Re the food diary, you wrote
"even with me writing the days as titles and the meals as subheadings and writing the list of what he ate for him to copy (wow what a learning experience)"

I agree that sounds pointless and frustrating for both of you. Why didn't you just let him do what he could on his own in 20 minutes? If he couldn't get his head round it on his own, surely his teacher needs to know that?

[swallowedAfly]

really?

perhaps ds has sen or something that i'm unaware of and all teachers have been foisted into thinking him able when he is actually sub normal because he could not write all of the number bonds 1-20 on blank paper. potentially it might take him ten pages of giant letters or normal sized but sloping across the page etc.

i did say by the way that i have no idea why i've have enough tonight because given some of the tasks this one's actually alright in comparison.

to those who get it (and are happy to admit that 6yos aren't literary genius' who can write pages on their own without structure - wow normal kids, yay!) THANK YOU

[OldRoan]

Don't call them sums anymore because 'sum' means 'add' ie the sum of 4 and 6 is 10. So a division problem isn't a 'sum'...

I teach 1/2. I set more structured homework but don't have a problem with the content of that. Did the teacher go through it with them? My main problem is that it is effectively assessing the child, but without the controlled environment of the classroom (so I would never rely on it as a piece of assessed work, because I can't say for sure what the parents/carers have done).

[swallowedAfly]

let's face it the food diary wasn't about ds' literacy skills it was a nosey at what you feed your kids.

and IMAGINE how the try hard, insecure, prove i'm the best mummy ever types fed their children that weekend

[jasminerose]

With food diary I would of said write down what you think if you have trouble I will shout out letters, but I wouldnt really sit with dd for that. Its just to see if they know their letters

[spanieleyes]

Does it matter if it slopes across the paper? Or is written in numerals 2 foot high on a piece of wallpaper! Or indeed if he writes anything in words at all, if the calculations are in ascending order this shows an understanding of a pattern, if 1+9 is written near 1+19, this shows an understanding of another pattern, if 4+16 is written next to 16+4, there is another pattern, none of which needs words to demonstrate.
Just let him do what he can do, which is all the teacher wants!

[swallowedAfly]

teacher never goes through it oldroan and literally the whole year group (2 full classes) has the same sticker stuck in their book year in year out.

box ticking at the expense of parent and child time and more creative, constructive learning. also, imo, at the expense of real respect for the school and the teacher you know?

last parent's evening (last school year and teacher) i apologised that i didn't sign the reading book nightly and explained we found the books a bit mind numbing and i preferred to let ds read me the odd paragraphs from the chapter books i read him at night and to get him to read stuff on screen and out of magazines etc than deal with the dull as ditch water books.

all fine apparently. his story was, 'well we have to treat all parents the same because SOME parents would never do anything with their children if we didn't set all of this stuff but obviously there are much better ways for parents to support their children' etc.

in the meantime though the child shits themselves if they haven't done the homework because they get in trouble for it, the parents stresses and does it even though it's meaningless, etc etc. joy of learning, joy of teaching, natural spontaneous dialogue etc squeezed out to make way for box ticking.

[jasminerose]

If dd reads a different book just write it in the record. They dont care what you read. I really think you are reading too much into this

[mysticminstrel]

I have a DC in year one and I don't know anything about number bonds! Perhaps DD1 does though, I've never asked.

This school you mention, the village doesn't have the initials WS, does it?

[swallowedAfly]

imagine being the child with letters sloping down a page barely legibly (re: a 6yos work) when everyone else has pages of perfection with print outs from the internet and highlighter pens and alphabetically ordered blumming points your mummy is the only mummy who doesn't think her souls worth is based on how well she does her child's homework that weekend?