Help me to phrase questions for the head please

[Hmmletmesee]

I have namechanged as i think i might sound very pfb and a bit of a knob.

DD will start reception in 2015 but we have decided to start looking at schools now, in case we need to get DD onto a private school waiting list. We live a 3 min walk from our local school and DD is guaranteed a place there due to the admission/catchment arrangements.

DD is a bright, capable, September born girl. After primary school we intend to send her to a selective independent secondary.

I have a few concerns about our local school being right for DD and I would like to as the HT of the school about them when we go to look around. However I don't want to sound confrontational or like a knob. Please could you look at my questions and help me to rephrase them. My questions are:

The ofsted report for the school (satisfactory in 2012) repeatedly mentions that the work set is not challenging enough for the most able pupils. What have they done to address this and do they now offer opportunities for the most able to fulfil their potential?

All children are taught in mixed age classes after reception with 2 year groups in each). I think this will be great for DD when she is part of the younger age group in the class as it will place her chronologically in the middle of the group, but I am concerned that she will not have a sufficient peer group of able, older children when she is part of the older year group in the class. I think you need a "critical mass" of similar ability children to compete against (not in an unpleasant way, but to provide a level of discussion and challenge). I suppose my question is, "might this be a problem and how do they address it, if it is?"

My third question is around secondary schools; I'd like to know if they have much success with pupils taking entrance tests and do they deal positively with children moving to schools other than the local secondary? I don't mean that they should be making a great fuss of it, just that they can deal with it sensitively and not voice disapproval about it or make DD feel left out.

Lastly I would like to know about the religious content of their assemblies. We do not have a faith and would like to bring DD up to know about lots of faiths, but I am not keen on school giving her the impression that she is Christian or presenting Christianity as fact. What can I ask about this?

Apologies, I seem to have written an essay, but I am very aware that we are likely to have a 7+ year relationship with this school and perhaps this HT and I feel I do need answers to these questions, but don't want to antagonise.

[Hmmletmesee]

I don't think you quite get my point. We are trying to find a school for DD and we need to decide in time for her to get a place. That might mean putting her name down for somewhere in the next 12 months. I can and will control her sufficiently to ensure that she attends school and we do need to make a decision as responsible adults about which school she attends. I think that choosing a school that provides opportunities to fulfil her potential in which ever ways she chooses to follow is the best thing we can do for her. I want to open doors for her, but I won't be shoving her through any particular door.

[smoothmoves]

If you came to my school I'd think 'nightmare pushy parent' and encourage you to go somewhere else.

[Hmmletmesee]

And that is why I am asking for help to phrase my questions carefully, rather than blundering insensitively. I want to get the right balance between being involved and supportive and being a nightmare. I think that I have achieved this with DD's nursery and I should be able to do that at school level too, if I am careful. I hope to be able to be a parent governor too, depending on how easy they find it to recruit them, so I might need to form a good working relationship with the head/staff beyond that of just a parent.

[Annanon]

Trust your instincts. These are your genuine questions about the school, so if you don't ask them, you wont find out. Your questions seem appropriate to me, though I'm not sure they will keep much info on success with entrance tests. It wont be their priority. You could ask which schools the children generally move on to.

Ask questions, but don't just rely on the answers you are given by the Ht. When you look around, look for signs of differentiation in the activities the children are engaged in. Is the work on display what you would expect (including in the reception & Y1 classes). Perhaps ask for specific examples of how they differentiate at each stage (EYFS, KS1, KS2).

[Annanon]

An inclusive state school, shouldn't encourage anyone to go elsewhere . I think questions about differentiation are completely valid, because Dc are unpredictable.

[CounselorTroi]

As a Reception teacher of old, I did encounter many, many parents who were adamant from day 1 that their child was very, very able and not being sufficiently stretched in the classroom. Even in the face of evince suggesting otherwise. It made my life very difficult as parents would frequently insist books sent home weren't good enough, EYFS profile results were wrong etc. Hmm have you thought about how you will cope if it emerges that she isn't as academically able as you want her to be?

Equally, I met some incredibly bright children, often from homes where parents wouldn't believe or just didn't care that little Colin| Mary were very able children.

I think no school 'strives for mediocrity' , which is not to say that there are no mediocre schools. It's a horrible judgement to make on schools to think that staff are sitting in their staff room striving to be mediocre.

To be honest, you sound like you (not necessarily your DD)would do better in in indy from the start.

[CounselorTroi]

*evidence even. iPad fail.

[mintyneb]

Why don't you just put your DDs name down anyway for independent schools and then hold fire with the state school til its nearer the time for applying? You've still got 18 months til you need to apply for state school and anything could happen at your local one in that time.

I think you are worrying a bit prematurely and in another year's time you will have an even better idea of your DDs capabilities

[Hmmletmesee]

As I mentioned above, I don't think that independents are necessarily more ambitious for their pupils. My concern about "striving for mediocrity" comes from my own independent primary education. The main thing that independents have going for them is smaller class sizes, beyond that I don't think you can generalise about the differences between state and private.

My main concern is that she is interested and engaged. I am clear that she will have strengths and weaknesses, like any child and I want to know that these will be catered for fully.

[Hmmletmesee]

I think it is quite pricy to register for independent schools, but I suppose it is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of actually sending DD to one.

[Catsnotrats]

Another thing to remember is that what is happening in year 6 now may be completely unrecognisable in 8 years time when your dd is there.

When our current year 6 parents were choosing schools for reception we were considered the sink school. Fast forward 8 years and our sats results have increased by 25 percentage points, and the school that everyone was clamouring to get into is in special measures (we are also now full and have

[Catsnotrats]

Sorry deleted that last bit!

• and have a huge waiting list).
  

Also success at entrance tests is an irrelevance for the vast majority of state primaries. We have a few who go to super-selectively every year, but that is down to their parents preparing them at home. What we are focused on is ensuring that they are meeting their full potential in terms of nc levels (as well as the extra curricular and personal well being stuff!)

[cansu]

The more you post the more I think you should go straight for an independent. You seem to be very concerned with getting on with the head of the new school. You should be more concerned with how the school community functions and what the teachers are like as they will have the most input into your dd education. I think though that you are worrying about nothing. Save your concern for when your dd is older. You will then know whether she needs something that is substantially different from what most state schools can provide. At the moment this is all frankly very very precious and completely unnecessary. By the way your own academic background does not mean your dd will be very able.

[teacherwith2kids]

I think that your questions are entirely reasonable - but the way that you ask them will be absolutely critical. As with all these things, the same information can be acquired in different ways!

Taking your questions in order:

• It is entirely reasonable to say 'I noticed in your Ofsted report that there were some comments about provision for able pupils. Could you tell me a little bit about what you have done to address this?'. It is NOT reasonable to declare that you are specifically interested in this because your child is able. If there are other weaknesses identified in the Ofsted report (probably are because otherwise it would be Good not satisfactory) you might want to ask about action plans to address these as well, in the interests of balance.
  

• Equally, talking about the mixed age classes, it is entirely reasonable to ask how they cater for the very wide spread of abilities within those classrooms - you could mention that this spread might be 'from the least able in the younger year right up to the most able of the older year', and also how they ensure children remain interested, engaged and challenged throughout the two years in the same classroom. You might expect to get answers about differentiation, use of TAs, rolling programmes of topics, within-class ability groupings etc. Again, it is NOT reasonable to say 'my child might not be challenged in her second year in a class because she will be amongst the most able and will get bored - how will you deal with it?'
  

• It is reasonable to ask about which secondaries the school typically sends children off to - and what you are looking for is evidence of a range, not everyone going to the same one. They will not prepare your child for independent school entrance tests, so whether children are successful or not in these is totally irrelevant - don't ask that one.
  

• It is reasonable to ask about which other faiths children learn about, through RE and collective worship [assembly] and also to ask whether they have visitors from churches or from other faiths coming in to take assembly or speak to the children. You will need to read between the lines of this answer - if they say they have Open the Book [bible stories] every week and the local vicar comes in weekly, but do not mention other faiths, you can infer that they are quite Christian!
  

DS was a very, very able pre-schooler. He is a very able secondary school pupil now. However his first years at school were dominated by what became a significant SEN - many ASD tendencies followed by selective school-induced mutism. The questions I asked of his first school were about his ability - but what in the end mattered was their [in]ability to cope with his developing SEN. When he moved school, I asked mostly about their ability to cope with his SEN ...which almost completely vanished under their care, leaving his ability to thrive once more. Make no assumptions.

[Hmmletmesee]

I agree that schools change. The tone at the top is crucial and head teachers do move. But there is little we can do about that in making a decision.

I think we may need to be prepared to move DD at year 3 from which ever school we choose to one that is more suitable at that point. As long as there are enough pupils moving into the school at that point then I don't think it is much of a problem, but I wouldn't want DD to have to go in as "the new girl" to an established class of children.

[KingscoteStaff]

I think no school 'strives for mediocrity' , which is not to say that there are no mediocre schools. It's a horrible judgement to make on schools to think that staff are sitting in their staff room 'striving' to be mediocre.

^This

I think all of your questions are absolutely sensible.

However, I can tell you that no state primary prepares for entrance exams, whether independent, 11+ or 'aptitude'.

You may not get a chance to ask your questions - at our school the HT greets the visiting prospective parents (no time for questions), 2 Year 6 children show them round and then they all gather in the entrance hall for the HT to bid them farewell.

[teacherwith2kids]

Oh, and be prepared for the fact that modern Reception (though a truly facntastic learning environment for the very able if well-organised, because it places so few barriers in the way to them learning at their own pace) will look NOTHING like your own education in a private primary.

If you judge it as 'just playing' and therefore dismiss the school as a result, you have completely failed to understand it.

[teacherwith2kids]

I would also say that DD was non-verbal at 2 - and has been effortlessly top of her (excellent) primary school class ever since she started as a 4 year old. Whereas, as I said, DS was hugely articulate at that age , great understanding of number etc - and was on the SEN register [for exceptionally high ability AND selective mutism] within months of starting school

Ability cannot necessarily be predicted either from family background or from what a child can do at an early age.

[Panzee]

You should expect your child to be challenged whether she is more able or not. So it is a valid question. Whether or not your child will be more able is a red herring. If she is struggling, will they leave her to it or pull her along? If she is bang in the middle, same question.

[teacherwith2kids]

Panzee, exactly. Which is why phrasing the questions in such a way as to ask in general about challenge for all, not in particular about 'challenging my daughter who is obviously soooo bright' is important!

[Hmmletmesee]

Thanks teacherwith2kids - that is exactly what I am after.

I have reread the ofsted report and it repeatedly comments on not sufficiently extending more-able pupils and that the school is improving but has not had a sufficient length of time with sustained improvement to be considered "good".

Cansu - I am concerned not to piss off the head when we first meet -that seems like quite a reasonable desire. It is the school's standard protocol for prospective parents to meet the head and be shown round by the head, it isn't something I have specifically requested. I have just asked to have a look.

[teacherwith2kids]

Thanks for more detail on the Ofsted report. You could therefore ask 'Has the improving trend that Ofsted noted continued? What have been your priorities for improvement recently? Can you show me some examples of this in practice?' followed by approving noises as he / she shows them off!

The relationship with a head IS critical in a small school - which with mixed classes this one seems to be. You are wise to consider it.

[twentyten]

Hi. You sound really measured and sensitive-asking about the head's vision and priorities for the school gives you a great opportunity to see what is important to them.
Please trust your judgement-your experience feeds your instinct.