DS is in P2 aged 7- they are asking them to write "interesting" sentences

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

We are in Scotland so my DS is in his second year of formal education, class age is 6-7.

They have recently started to receive written homework, quite a lot of it on a Monday night to complete by Friday. Fair enough, I make sure DS does it during the week but he finds writing quite hard and struggles taking a long time to complete sentences.

We went in for parents evening on Tuesday and the teacher told us that a lot of the focus is on writing interesting sentences with "wow" words that are more exciting for people to read.

I'm happy to be told I'm wrong, but it seems quite a lot of expectation for children that are getting to grips with writing as they did little writing in P1. Also his spelling isn't great but they don't seem to correct that.

Don't get me wrong, I write in my spare time so I think it's wonderful that children are getting help in this, but I just think it feels like running before they can walk.

I should probably go and speak to the teacher again, at the time it didn't sink in, but now it has and I can see how hard it is for DS who is trying to write neatly, form sentences correctly, spell correctly, then trying to make it exciting on top.

I would be keen to hear others thoughts.

[MammaMedusa]

Yes, think we are on the same wavelength - I was very tired last night! Husband away so too many 5:30 am starts to get everything done...

[mrz]

Most schools don't teach children to use unnecessary adjective and adverbs which some posters seem to be suggesting MammaMedusa and I was trying to point out the methods you describe are far more common.

[MammaMedusa]

And my grammar got in a terrible knot there - time for bed before I damage the nation's children tomorrow!

[MammaMedusa]

Oh yes, not implying we are anything special... just trying to give another side to the picture that it is not all just us persuading them to regurgitate their thesauri in every sentence.

[mrz]

Those sound like very common ways used by most schools for children to learn about writing ...

[FrauMoose]

Those sound like good ways for children to learn about writing...

[MammaMedusa]

It is not always about adding adjectives and adverbs though.

For example, in our class we made the children take the sentence
"The man ran out of the building " and make it into as many different versions as they could by changing man and building.

The robber ran out of the bank
The runner ran out of the stadium
The head teacher ran out of the school
The train driver ran out of the station
The doctor ran out of the hospital
The clown ran out of the circus tent...

Each of those paint a much more precise picture and also are much more likely to make you want to read (or write) on than the first sentence.

The reason for planning is to help children see that a story has a beginning, middle and end. Some writing can be very muddled otherwise.

To force them to use describing words properly, we had a page of monsters and they had to choose one to describe in writing and they could then test the staff to see if we could tell which one they had chosen.

[mrz]

I wonder exactly how many of the 16971 primary schools in England Helen Cross has actually set foot in for her generalisation of "many" which more accurately should perhaps read "some".

[MrsMelons]

I think the trouble is we are talking about 4-7 year olds and they are just being taught different ways of doing things and to put some effort and thought into their writing at a very young age. If they are good creative writers they should develop their own style in time.

I think the author of 50 shades (which I love BTW) clearly never moved on from overuse of wow words and unnecessary use of adjectives as she used the same ones throughout the trilogy (whether they were needed or not) so maybe it does do some damage!

[badger2005]

It's like art. Some art anyway. The artist is doing a lot of looking, and the act of drawing/painting/sculpting helps with the looking, and also communicates what she has seen.

Glitter might play a role in that, but then again it might not! She might want to use just one colour, or more than one. I just think there is something wrong with laying down general rules or guidelines for how you should use the medium, when what you need to do is start with the message.

Know what I mean?

[badger2005]

I love this bit in the article:

"...prose as being like a clear pane of glass through which we see the world simply and clearly."

[BabiesAreLikeBuses]

We've banned the word 'wow' in our school as it's a bit too jazz hands and slightly patronising! You raised here the real problem, many kids aren't getting enough conversation or reading enough interesting books... I'm sure most kids in my class haven't had someone read to them regularly since they were 7 (at which point they could read) yet one of my favourite memories of y6 is my teacher reading to us at the end of every day books i might not have picked up on my own.
So what we're trying to do in schools is paper over those cracks by teaching children to write in a formulaic way at lower ks2 then encouraging experimentation and creativity higher up... Which is not really the natural order of things...

[FrauMoose]

There's an interesting article from a fellow-writer - one who is more experienced than I am with working in primary schools - here.

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6014004

[MrsMelons]

I don't really see it as just uncessary adjectives etc. I know DS is taught to 'make it more interesting' but this is more around using interesting descriptions in creative writing, setting the scene and possibly thinking of different words to use rather than being repetitive.


fraumoose I do feel like you are generalising as the things you describe are happening in lots of schools (certainly in our local area).

From what I have seen DS does not generally use wow words pointlessly and he loves coming up with something interesting to read (he loves literacy though) andI know that when DSs work has been marked they have commented on sentences/words that are unnecessary so it is not all about fancy pointless words.

At 7 I think most children need to plan their writing as many will not be natural writers, I know they are encouraged to write down words to prompt them about the topic they are writing about (in non fiction) as well as helping them lay out a report etc.

[FrauMoose]

I have many friends who work in primary school teaching as well as the experience of bringing up my own children and stepchildren. Education Guardian is also quite useful for information about development in schools.

My own instinct from working with children is that what helps them to become more confident fluent writers is to be able to take an interest in their ideas. What do they want to say (write)? How, as adults can we help them to say/write it? Developing vocabulary and/or sentence structure can arise from this kind of conversation. Plus there is all the obvious stuff like praising what they have already achieved.

[NotTreadingGrapes]

I think once you get to grown up writing stories like Frau, it's fair enough to be more concise and controlled....(heck, JK could have done with a few million-billion "wow" words edited out.....) but at 7 surely the idea is to get children to be comfortable with using words they might not automatically be familiar with.

[mrz]

Perhaps you need to look at what is happening in other primary schools to get a better overview.

[FrauMoose]

I've done a stint in a local primary school working with children on expressive writing and had a chance to see what their class teacher was doing. Their class teacher was a) a good, effective teacher and b) delivering what the National Curriculum asked her to do.

But I think the trouble with the Curriculum is that automatically assigns a higher value to complex sentences than simpler ones, so that children are encouraged to write in an artificial, unnatural and fussy way - that is divorced from the way they engage with/experience the word.

My own sense is that children aren't sufficiently encouraged to read freely and with enjoyment. And although the curriculum does look at speaking and listening, maybe there isn't just enough conversation in some children's lives? (Busy parents, lots of devices to watch passively, too many settings in which individual attention can't be given.)

There is also a very rigid idea that is put over in schools about how writing is supposed to be done. Stories are meant to be planned in advance. However few 'real' writers don't plan their work in this way. Often authors will simply write because they want/need to write and impose some sort of of structure at a later stage. Or a writer might start out with ideas about what they want to write, but realise later that they actually wanted to write something different and 'go with the flow', abandoning the original plan

Most teachers aren't writers themselves. They are not confident or comfortable about encouraging creativity - and are more secure when following the rulebook. But this does have the unfortunate effect of reducing creativity to the mechanical insertion of 'wow' word after 'wow' word...

[mrz]

I don't think anyone is suggesting putting in unnecessary adjectives and adverbs.

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

Interesting viewpoints. I dabble with writing in my spare time too and most of the advice I have read recommends not putting in unnecessary adjectives and adverbs.

Thanks lifeisbetter - I had a good chat with some Mum friends over the weekend and even those with more able children are finding the extra written homework heavy going. I think some bribery is in order.

[mrz]

When you are just 7 years old writing one interesting sentence is a challenge producing a complete story that is fast paced might be a big ask initially. Interesting sentences don't need to contain "wow" words but it might be more descriptive to write

"Stop!" commanded the policeman. rather than The policeman said "Stop."

[badger2005]

A better choice than what though? E.g. sometimes 'He said...' is good, and 'He hinted', 'He admitted' etc would be wrong (and annoying). I just think that sometimes someone might have made the right choice about which words to use without using any 'wow' words at all.

[LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops]

Stick with it OP, it's hard going, but it will fall into place. My DS prefers maths, he gets bored writing, I just sit down with him, we discuss it, I bribe him with some sort of treat for when he's finished, and we get there. It is always a bit of a battle, but he does now come up with his own adjectives and connectives.

[badger2005]

But the whole idea of 'interesting sentences' seems a bit weird to me. If you're writing a story, for example, then you don't necessarily want all the sentences to be 'interesting' in themselves. What they need to be like depends on the rest of the story. What if you want a fast-paced bit where lots of things happen quickly? The adjectives might slow things down...? That's just an example - I'm not a creative writer (obviously!). But I just think that the idea of writing 'interesting' sentences with 'wow' words is probably not how you go about writing a good story.

[mrz]

Interesting words don't have to be fancy, just a better choice.