How could people be made more aware of reception admissions?

[Pyrrah]

Judging by the number of people on MN who turn up having made a balls up of the application process (which will be a fraction of those who have) surely there must be a way of alerting parents and of warning them of the possible issues.

Could the BBC do a party political broadcast type thing once a week from when applications open?

Could CBeebies do a basic guide?

I can see why sending letters out everywhere isn't practical, but it must cost a fortune for councils to sort out the mess each year.

Many people don't send their child to nursery, don't visit libraries etc and so really have no idea of when to apply or how it works - or more importantly the consequences of rejecting an offer or of only listing options they don't stand a hope of getting.

[mam29]

Well spurred on my this thread I did some digging.

I been through it once before

I thourght I was quite a bit.

rang lea today to clarify local sibling.

My eldest goes to out of catchment school within 2miles of our home on in year admissions.

DD2 starts sept 2014 when shes 5.

She has no sibling link

This year there were

67 application 1st choice for 20places.
1was child in care
13 were local siblings
which leaves 6 for closest to school.
They were not able to offre people within catchment the school

Its on la border so even people in different county stand better chance

Im not too hopeful.

my 2nd /3rd choice inprobable.

have choice of 2schools 1 of which already removed eldest from.
Other even further away from eldest school.
We want to move house but dont think we can do it in time.

worse still have same blooming stress the following year when her brother goes to school.

Right now homeschooling looking like attractive option the stress of veiwiing so many as my area has no area of prime responsability so could put like 12schools down wouldent make a difference.

I was clued up and even i made a mistake.
Its just so complicated.
lea lady said she was impressed I had initiative to check early as most people dont check the nitty gritty.

[mam29]

Tiggytape you right

thing is no 1 year same.

1st went to school 2010 wasent as bad as is now.

choice is an illusion.

no dont have local school i be happy with or any have chance getting in.

have until jan 15th to move house.
pass driving test
look at as many new schools as possible.
even the new magic academy miles away.this year.

the acdemy still unclear of admissions as subject to change not open until this septemember and undersubscribed

There is lot movement so could wait list and home school but at age 5 i imagine she desperate to go and her younger brother going following year adds new complicatons..

wondering if neigbouring la has flipping local sibling rule as if it dont then its bit unfair.

But hs confirmed i could move la and still get school place.

Guess pays to research early.

I was going to wait until new admissions books and figures released glad i rang now.
e
Theres a few at school long distance who feel confident siblings get in going to get a shock.

[Floggingmolly]

You seriously think CBeebies should broadcast the news that you must apply for a school place for your child?
Makes you wonder how any of us managed it without having our hands held.

[ReallyTired]

In the past it was easier as there was less pressure on school places. Most schools were undersubscribed and parents actually had a choice. Labour stupidly closed loads of primary schools and sold off the land. We now have loads of families and no schools.

[Floggingmolly]

My eldest is 12 and my youngest is 5. The process has been identical for all of them.

[Pyrrah]

Floggingmolly - how did you know the first time that you needed to contact the council, that you needed to get the forms yourself and when the application dates were?

• If you don't have friends with similar age children - or friends who have been there before
  
• if you aren't familiar with UK schools
  
• if your child turns 4 in late August
  
• if you don't send your child to a nursery or use the library
  
• if there are no pre-school boosters because the 2nd MMR is done 4 weeks after the first
  
• and you live in an area where no letter or leaflet drops through the door, then how exactly are you supposed to realise - or realise in time?
  

A very large number of people don't - especially in places like London where the above situations are very probable, and where there is huge over-subscription plus very little chance of actually getting any choice.

For those for whom English is not a language they speak well, CBeebies is one of more likely British TV programmes that may be being watched at home.

[SquirrelNuts]

I didn't know what I was doing when it was due etc til I looked it up! They should send out application forms/booklet or at least make sure nursery gives them out

[AmandaPayneNeedsANap]

FloggingMolly- The short answer is that many, many people didn't manage in the past either. My mother spent the last 30 years of her career (she retired recently) teaching at a semi-disadvantaged school (not rough, but high levels of family disruption, low parental engagement, high free school meals, etc). Almost every year parents turned up on the first day or rang asking about the first day of term without having actually applied. Every year they got children suddenly added to the role by the council a few days before the start of the year. In an era of falling rolls, and particularly before class size limits, this type of cock up generally wasn't disastrous. Your child could probably get into the school you turned up at, or would be found one nearby. In recent years, it often results in a child being bused across the county whilst waiting for a space in the town.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Our MMR booster wouldn't have helped as it was months after the deadline anyway (summer baby).

In an ideal world every parent would be sufficiently invested in their children's education that they'd keep abreast of deadlines and procedures and wouldn't need reminders. But more realistically the process adds another layer of privilege for those children with engaged and educated parents.

[teatimesthree]

Based on my experiences - urban area, oversubscribed schools - some people don't want to get their heads around it. They fix onto one school they want their child to go to, stick their fingers in their ears, and ignore the fact that the child is unlikely to get in. Then they are outraged when they don't. They argue that all other local schools are unsuitable for their child, even though they haven't even visited them.

Having got that off my chest, the system is quite hard to understand. I am not sure that there is a better way to do it though.

[mam29]

I think as some quite a few schools living in urban city area having so much choice ie having several schools within easily walking distance some living in same street as school seems inconciveiable they would not get a place.

There are quite a few black spots for schools her and the shortages were concentrated on particular parts of city are now all over.

Asking people what happened in their year no help as every years so different so many factors now people look at

good ofsted
sats results.

Daughters last school had no after school club.

working parents would look for a school with breckfast club and afterschool provision.

some go to nurserys attached to schools and think that gives them greater chance even though they do say they totally separate.

A few years ago when aplied for dd1 I had more choice.

Now i feel restructed to 2 schools i wouldent chose.

1 already tried and failed dd1 , bad ofsted and falling numbers.

Its going to be purly luck that i find a school have any chance getting into and a longer commute.

Horry interesting point how admissions process favours more affluent and educated parents.

Think in every town mainly through snobbery /bad reputation that some parents avoid.

I have no regrets I made right decision for dd1 at time she loves her new school is catching up just feel sad her 2 siblings may not be able to go to that school.

Going to be crappy 2years for me trying to get them both into a good school preferably the same one.

wonder if birthrates have peaked and will dip?

surly boom will affect secondaries in few years time.

[ReallyTired]

The admissions process was similar for ds 7 years ago when he started primary. (It was online as well!) The only difference was that we could only pick 3 schools instead of four. Pretty much everyone got their first choice because there were loads of surplus places.

I dread secondary schools admissions.

[savoirfaire]

people I know - very well educated, reasonably well informed on most things - have just sent their child to a particular school nursery because they are convinced it will increase their chances of getting a reception place there. It won't (according to the published criteria) and their real chances of getting in are marginal - it will depend on siblings in that particular year group. They aren't looking at any other schools, as they are so convinced at this. It is bonkers.

[ReallyTired]

"people I know - very well educated, reasonably well informed on most things - have just sent their child to a particular school nursery because they are convinced it will increase their chances of getting a reception place there."

I don't know anyone who is THAT thick. Most people naively believed that their child would be offered a place in the school just down the road from them. They believed that their child would be offered a place in the school nearest to their house.

Actually lets get this right. These people believed that their child would be offered a place at a primary school within 5 miles of their house.

When you apply to school nursery the booklet makes it very clear that it does increase your chances of getting a reception place and that you need to re apply again.

[AmandaPayneNeedsANap]

I know a degree educated couple who were convinced that somehow the applications were individually processed (i.e. not by computer) and that they could put down one school they wanted (and most years would get) and three oversubscribed local schools (who would each have had to have a very, very slow year to give them any chance) and they'd definitely get one of them because it would be mean to give them nothing.

I know several families who only wrote down one school because it was a sibling. So if there happened to be too many looked after children and siblings for all the places, they wouldn't have got a school round the corner, they'd have got a failing school miles away. Thankfully none of them got bitten.

[AlienAttack]

But surely all these stories of people who "should know better" simply supports the idea that no matter how good and extensive the information published is, there will be people who miss it, think it doesn't apply to them, think they've identified a shortcut etc etc?

[ReallyTired]

Having a degree doesn't necessarily mean that someone has common sense.

AmandaPayneNeedsANap

It sounds like that your couple put down the four nearest schools and got nothing. Some people live in a black hole for school places.

[AmandaPayneNeedsANap]

Really - no. we are in a good bit of town for schools. They didn't list three closer schools - two of which I know they would have got based on distance, possibly the third too. Because they are good not outstanding. Now have a failing Catholic school miles away.

[savoirfaire]

To be fair, the couple that I mentioned are very busy, don't do MN and presumably genuinely believe that there is a human element to the process - I don't think they're just being dim and ignorant. Perhaps it should state somewhere that this is a computer based process? I've also pointed out to them that if they were given a place in the way they think it possible (i.e. because of using the nursery) and someone who missed out on a place appealed, the chances are they'd all be found out anyway. (Not totally sure if that is true!).

[steppemum]

I think you have hit the nail on the head there actually savoirfaire, people assume there is a human side to this process, they just can't believe that the system is so logically objective, and computer based.

People appeal because they just can't imagine how a council can give them an unreasonable school. even if they didn't apply for the available ones.

The people I feel really sorry for are the ones living in school black holes where you are stuffed before you begin.

[FranksCat]

Our LEA do send out letters to remind, but only to those registered with the corresponding health authority. We are in part of the county that comes under a neighbouring health authority so they don't write to us - they say it is against data protection to get access to that information.

[CouthyMow]

Essex has it right. They do it by hospital birth records, MW attended home birth records, and GP lists. Everyone gets sent a pack by the LA, preschools badger you to submit your application, two weeks before the closing date the LA sends you a letter in BIG writing reminding you to apply - only sent to those who don't do it before then...

I've not heard of anyone NOT applying. I'm sure there must be a few, dotted around the whole of Essex, that haven't got a pack, but they must have either been born outside Essex AND not registered with an Essex GP, or had their birth attended by independent MW's AND not registered with an Essex GP.

Haven't personally heard of that in the 8 years since Essex centralised applications, though. And I've applied for Primary school twice (DS1 and DS2) since then, AND Secondary school (DD and DS1) twice.

It's only 11 years ago that all I had to do to choose a school for DD was to go to the school I wanted, ask to have her name 'put in the book', and therefore got a place...