4As in Yr4 - how unusual?

[SilverBellsandCockleShells]

I went to parents' evening yesterday. We've recently moved our 8yo son because we knew he was bright and felt he was underperforming and our decision appears to have been vindicated! After predicting a 3a for him by the end of the year after their initial assessments, they have now assessed him as 4a for maths, and 4b for English, and reckon he will improve to 4a by the end of the year if he continues to focus and improve as he is doing.

Obviously this is good! I was just wondering how good. Are they the kind of levels you would expect the top children in a yr4 class to be achieving? Or is it more exceptional than that. I'm vaguely considering scholarships but don't want to push him if he is just averagely outstanding, if such a thing exists!

[rabbitstew]

And what have special schools got to do with expected levels, given that expected levels are nothing to do with ability or, apparently, averages?

[Itchyandscratchy]

Forget about the levels and get used to focusing on what children achieve at each key stage. The NC levels are being scrapped.

New programmes of study for 2014 here. No mention of levels whatsoever and we all need to start getting our heads round this.

[Feenie]

Good.

[Feenie]

From the new English curriculum:

All the skills of language are essential to participating fully as a member of society; pupils, therefore, who do not learn to read and write fluently and confidently, are, in every sense, disenfranchised.

It's punctuated correctly, of course, but what kind of clumsy sentence construction is that?

[mrz]

no but it has to do with the percentage of pupils achieving a level 4 or above ... the percentage achieving this is much higher than you suggested.

[swallowedAfly]

the odd really rude poster on this thread.

mrz - exactly ALL means ALL.

[swallowedAfly]

if average IQ = 100 and that is the average of everyone including those born with brain damage, severe learning disabilities etc then yes i would see having an IQ of 90 as being a disadvantage and a barrier to learning.

[rabbitstew]

But mrz, it is not much higher than I suggested - only 79% of children achieve a level 4 or above in English and Maths. I suggested it was 75%.

[rabbitstew]

swallowedAfly - that is not what average IQ means and educational psychologists would not view an IQ of 90 as being a barrier to learning. They would view it as having an average IQ.

[rabbitstew]

swallowedAfly - do you remember studying the mean, median and mode when learning about averages????....

[mrz]

and it doesn't alter the fact that nationally approx a third of all children are working at a similar level to the OPs child

[Taffeta]

I don't know. I really don't know. How do people know what other children in the year are achieving unless they are teachers?

DS is Y4, he was at 4a for Maths at parents evening in Nov, and got a 4 for reading in a recent assessment, but otherwise I've no idea.

He is very sporty. Is exceptional at football, cricket and tennis. Scholarships had never entered my head as I assume they are for the tremendously gifted?

[swallowedAfly]

i don't give a toss about how an educational psychologist would see it - this is a thread on mn where opinions are being exchanged. imo an IQ of 90 is a barrier to educational success - of course it is!

[swallowedAfly]

yep mrz - likely the third who have no SEN, no disablities, health issues etc and have had some degree of support and encouragement from home.

[swallowedAfly]

taffeta i think they're for the tremondously driven to be honest. two children with good ability and a bit of natural talent will end up with differing levels of 'excellence' depending on personality, interest etc and whether their parents push and pay for the lessons etc. different with the very rare mozart level genius but that is exceedingly rare.

[Taffeta]

Yes I can imagine that swallowed. Not for DS methinks.

[rabbitstew]

I've never viewed scholarships as being for the tremendously gifted, because I was offered one, my dh went through private schools on full scholarships and it has been suggested to us that we ought to be approaching schools seeking scholarships for our ds1. I don't think his SATs levels at school are sky high for his age, although they are obviously considerably higher than the "expected" level.

[Farewelltoarms]

Really mrz - a third of all children are working at a 4a midway through y4? That would suggest huge amounts getting sixes by end.
That sounds v high. My kids' school gets pretty good results at ks2 and I was told my son was pretty much at top with a couple of others and was only 4c at Xmas.
Are they falling short? Are they a particularly low achieving cohort (v mixed inner city school but disproportionate no of Oxbridge etc parents)? Or does the school measure in stricter way?

[lljkk]

I can't understand why MRZ said that, either.

[mrz]

Yes really Farewelltoarms as that would equate to the 30-35% achieving level 5 or above in Y6 which are the official DfE figures

[mrz]

A level 4A in Y4 does not equate to level 6 in Y6 Farewelltoarms ... good progress would be a full level over TWO years ie Y4-Y6.

[mrz]

"The percentages of pupils achieving above the expected level, Level 5 or above, in the 2011 Key Stage 2 tests by subject are as follows:

English 29 per cent (down 3 percentage points from 33 per cent in 2010)
Reading 43 per cent (down 8 percentage points from 50 per cent in 2010)
Writing 20 per cent (down 1 percentage point from 21 per cent in 2010)
Mathematics 35 per cent (up 1 percentage point from 34 per cent in 2010)

[rabbitstew]

mrz - a level 4A in year 4 may not equate to level 6 in year 6 in your school, but it does in my dss' school. Possibly because children do not progress through all schools in a linear way, unless they are rigorously taught to the test all the way through, of course. Since you don't have statistics for children's levels in year 4, I think you are attempting to sound far more confident than you actually are about reality.

[rabbitstew]

We are only halfway through the school year, so a 4A now should/could be a level 5 by the end of the year.