How much sloppy work from the teacher should I tolerate before approaching the HT?

[Alliwantisaroomsomewhere]

DS is in Yr 3 at a good enough school! There have been 2 or 3 minor spelling or grammatical errors in homework tasks which I have (very graciously ) overlooked.

However, last term DS had to do some time telling homework ie write down what the time is on the clock face shown. Teacher marked all of the his work correct when over half was incorrect. I wrote a note to the teacher asking about it and she apologised profusely saying that she had marked the homework but had no idea how that had happened.

This week's homework for numeracy had a number pattern that was unfathomable and the literacy homework had a grammatical error that would have made the work confusing for children.

What really pissed me off a lot was that DS's literacy homework from last week was marked all incorrect when not only was it correct, but the week before's work was very, very similar and again all correct, but this was accepted by the very same teacher. Again I made a note in DS's literacy homework book, and all she has done is initial and date my comments.

The marking is very sloppy and I wonder whether I should raise all these issues with the HT or do I let it go and see if things improve. All parents recently received a note from the HT stating that moves were afoot to improve the quality of teaching and learning in the school.

Do I put up and shut up or speak up?

(sorry, very long and rather dull...)

[Alliwantisaroomsomewhere]

The fundamental problem is that numeracy and literacy are not taught properly in schools. Children are not taught basic arithmetic til it comes out of their ears. Children are not taught the basic rules of grammar in a regimented manner.

There is also the school of thought that if the person can be understood, what's the bother about grammar and spelling?

It is shameful that a country as rich and developed as England has such pathetic numeracy and literacy levels. I grew up in South Africa where at one point it was legislated that certain groups of people would receive inferior education. In that case I can fully appreciate that there would be millions of people for whom basic literacy and numeracy is lacking.

What is England's excuse? I recently did a post graduate course at a well respected university where some primary school and preschool teachers who did the course with me, could barely construct a grammatical sentence. This was at Masters level.

[ZolaBuddleia]

The 'not correcting every error' policy happens at FE level too. We weren't allowed to ask students to write an 'essay' because the term was "too intimidating". These were students who, thanks to the fucking up and devaluing of education, were a year away from going to university.

There's a primary school near me who I commonly hear described as "good, but very academic".

[ZolaBuddleia]

that I hear

[moondog]

Beautifully put LaQueen.

[Schooldidi]

I'm a teacher and I do occassionally make mistakes on the board. It even happened in my last lesson observation . I always apologise as soon as it is noticed (either by me or a pupil) and use those errors as a cautionary tale about how we all make mistakes and that is why it is so important to check your work once you have finished.

I would be horrified if I sent work home that was an unacceptable standard though. Spellings being correct (and correctly punctuated) for spelling tests is an absolute must. Grammar should be correct, especially when marking pupils' work.

Zola My school is described like that. We're secondary, but people seem to think it's a bad thing that pupils are expected to be in lessons, learning, rather than out doing extra curricular things during lesson time .

[Schooldidi]

To be fair though LaQueen plays aren't designed to be read are they, they're designed to be acted and watched. Having said that, dd1 is currently 'studying' Macbeth at school and her top set class have watched a modern adaptation of the play (lasting 2 lessons) and read a cartoon book of the story. None of it has even been in the proper Shakespearean language! I can understand doing that for pupils who would have problems reading/understanding the language, but a top set of teenagers should be able to do it.

I don't really care if some lessons are a bit boring (some of mine are a bit) as long as the pupils are learning. I would generally prefer that dd1 enjoyed school, but that is easily achievable as long as the school clamp down on the bullying and teasing she is currently recieving because she enjoys learning and hates the "fun" learning activities they are constantly exposed to.

[moondog]

You go Laqueen.
It's a bloody scandal isn't it?
I'd strongly recommmend this book to you (and anyone else interested/outraged in/by the current obsession with 'fun' in pedagogical situations.

Vicki Snider is my hero.

[kitchenidiots]

I'm currently tackling scenes from Macbeth with my Year 5 class - in the original language - in a fun way. They LOVE it and are working through some pretty tough language at the same time.

It can be done.

[moondog]

The collage/design an outfit examples have parallels elsewhere.
It's the historic house with the softplay facility, the castle with the treasure hunt and the museum with the chill out zone.

Good forbid one that a child should be considered worthy of tackling the unadulterated product.
The message comes over strong and clear each time.
'This is not for the likes of you.

Thus the pathetic attempts at accessibility end up shuting the door in the face of those who need it the most.

[mrz]

I've taught Macbeth and the Tempest in Y2 class using a mixture of "Shakespeare Stories" and the original texts. Children love playing with the unfamiliar language

[Schooldidi]

LaQueen I entirely agree with you that they should be reading the text, possibly in an accessible way, possibly some children don't need to read the entire text but they should have seen chunks of the original language at least.

I hated the faffy-fun approach to English, Geography, History, etc at school. I wanted to be reading original texts and actually learning facts about things, not faffing around colouring in pictures, etc. I think that's why I ended up doing Maths and Science A levels, they were the subjects least likely to make me do 'fun'. By the way, I've read Macbeth, so it sounds like I'm more qualified to teach it than you English teacher relative .

That book looks really interesting moon. I think I'll see if we've got it in our school library (unlikely) or the local library might be able to request it for me.

[moondog]

It is School.
Utterly gripping from start to finish.
I emailed the author straight after I read it to tell her so.
Amazing woman.

[Alliwantisaroomsomewhere]

I am very interested to read what people are saying about collages and designing and crap like that. I wondered if I was missing the point about some of the peculiar stuff that my son comes home with.

Other things that puzzle me: He is now being taught to write letters, formal and informal, yet he is not being taught how to form the actual letters of the alphabet legibly and correctly. He is being taught how to draw bar graphs, but he cannot do simple division properly.

Is this what it is all about now? Even in Yr 2 his teacher seemed pleased to tell me that it did not matter than his handwriting was crap because it was not taken into account for the bloody ridiculous Yr 2 SATS. I don't care about the fucking SATS, but I do care about him being able to write properly. At age 8 he is still starting his numbers from the bottom up. He is still starting sentences with small letters. Yes, he is the more able groups for all subjects at school so it is not that he is academically behind in anyway.

I am another one that votes for academic schools as opposed to FUN schools.

[Feenie]

Even in Yr 2 his teacher seemed pleased to tell me that it did not matter than his handwriting was crap because it was not taken into account for the bloody ridiculous Yr 2 SATS.

And that's not true, either - it's assessed both in the writing test and in the NC, so would count towards the teacher assessment.

[Alliwantisaroomsomewhere]

Feenie, is NC National Curriculum? What is teacher assessment? In his infant school, DS's SATS were marked by the class teachers. Is teacher assessment assessement of the teachers or by the teachers?

(I am not in education so a lot of the terminology is new to me.)

[Feenie]

NC is indeed National Curriculum.

Teacher assessment is the evidence collected by all teachers about pupils, in every year, throughout the school.

In Y2, this teacher assessment has to be reported to parents, and has to include a test as a small part of the overall evidence. Handwriting should be included both in the test and as part of the teacher's normal day to day writing assessment.

[moondog]

AllIwant, yes indeed.
The obsession with moving on through the NC irrespective of whether basics have been grasped.
I've been the one responsible for getting my children writing properly, instilling foundations of basic syntax, working on times tables. The list goes on.
I often feel I'm sending them to school to bugger about while I am the one at home sweating it out doing the actual teaching. On tops of a hard day's work.
It makes me very angry indeed, despite the fact that the people who teach my children are good well meaning nadh ard working people.

[Alliwantisaroomsomewhere]

YES! It is that "gentle, indirect, faffy way" that really fucks me off. The only way to learn your times tables is by rote and recitation: over and over and over again.

Grammar has RULES that should be taught and delivered to classes as given rules, not as optional extras to leave here and there as they please.

[Feenie]

I really hope we are not tarring all teachers with the same brush here, ladies - plenty of teachers here and elsewhere believe in rigorous tables practice and thorough teaching of grammatical rules.

[moondog]

Not at all. I come from a fmaily of teachers and also work with many fantastic ones.
#Teaching is a noble profession. I see teachers as victims of a culture where fun matters more than intellectual rigour.
Except it's not really fun to be crap.