Is it the norm for teachers to use the word, 'naughty' to describe pupils' behaviour

[Goldenbear]

My DS is in Year 1 at a school that I thought had a fairly progressive and liberal ethos with regards to Education. Therefore, I was quite surprised to hear from DS on a few occasions that one of his teachers regularly describes other pupils behaviour as being 'naughty' and then proceeds to write their names on the 'Sun and Cloud' (discipline system). Is it still acceptable to just label someone as 'being naughty' in a classroom?

Equally, she has told some of the class to be 'more resourceful', is this ever an appropriate response to 5/6 year olds? She didn't say it to my DS but he asked me what it mean't.

She did tell my DS to, 'move out of the way' when all he was doing was standing at the front of a queue near a door. She also put him on the 'Sun and Cloud' without warning as he began to sound out a word (didn't finish it) when they were sat around a table and she had told them to read but not out loud. He has not once been on the 'Sun and Cloud' throughout infant school- I think her reaction was very harsh considering they're learning to read.

All of these things combined make me think she is not very professional, should I say something to her directly?

Can't really see any issue with any of the things you describe tbh.

Describing behaviour as naughty or unacceptable is fine imo, rather than the child itself. Usually a reason or explanation accompanies this. In your OP you do say it is the behaviour that is labelled, not that child.

"Move out of the way" - depends on how said and tone, if asked already in other ways, etc. I joke with my Y2s "Come on, Shoo, Out my way..." type thing. Never meant in a ride way, and afaik never taken that way either.

And yes, I'd say it to an adult - imagine I have my hands full, trying to get by somewhere a bit tight, people in way, I'm in a rush - yes, I might call that out tbh, probably a please called afterwards, or a thanks.

"More resourceful" - well, maybe they do need to be! So long as the child involve understands how to do so then again, where is the issue.

The Cloud with no warning - well, a little harsh maybe - but how do you know there was definitely no warning? Had they not had instructions beforehand? Are you sure it was only once he did it? What does going on a cloud mean? Is it a big sanction or can it be worked "off" again within a short while?

Whilst most 5 year olds are very capable of remembering things, almost every child I have ever met, especially the clever ones, are also very good at remembering just the "right bits" iyswim.

I have two bright 5 year olds. They are also very socially confident.

If a teacher told them to rudely move out of the way, they would understand that not everything that happens is about them. The teacher is human after all, she may have been ill, worried angry (with someone else), tired or simply having a bad day. My two might be slightly miffed but I'd be surprised if they even thought to mention it to me.

I'm not sure why you are so upset about explaining the concept of double standards to your child either tbh. Children see double standards in operation all the time. (eg wecteach them always to cross at the green man but adults regularly don't wait). It's hardly the worst thing you are going to have to teach him about the world.

BTW one of the advantages of twins is an on the spot witness to your child's story. Neither if my two lie, but they are excellent at telling a story to their advantage... Something to think about?

I don't ever use 'naughty' with my pupils.

I prefer 'stupid'.

Hth

Sorry, but I feel very sorry for your ds's teacher having read this - as well as those he will have in the future.

Are you happy with his experiences at school apart from these non issues?
Is he happy there? Making good progress? If so, why are you focusing on the negatives, negatives that are relatively unimportant, and if not, why are you focusing on something so trivial? To consider, even for a moment, going in and branding her unprofessional over this is beyond belief.

Reading this brings to mind pupils I have taught (secondary) who play up or do little work, and when challenged over their actions complain that the I/the teacher concerned didn't say please. It is an excuse, of course, and a very cheeky one. By encouraging your son to feedback to you every little thing the teacher says but not help him to put it in perspective, this is the attitiude you are in danger of engendering, imo.

Of course teachers need to be respectful to pupils. But they also need to be assertive and maintain order, so that all children can thrive in a calm and orderly environment.

Have you considered hs?

MrZ it is both- last time it was the person other times it has been their behaviour. Personally, I'm not in favour of either and I would imagine its not something alot of the parents would say to their children.

'move out of the way please' is fine but I don't think 'move out of the way' is great.

The thing is Naturalbaby, what motivation would my DS have in remebering the 'right things', it is not him that is being called naughty? When he got put on the 'Sun and Cloud', he told me because I asked him why he looked so down. He is honest and wasn't complaining that it was unfair, he was just disappointed in himself. Obviously, I reassured him that it was fine.

And of course there are double standards in the world, otherwise everyone would be as pompous and intractable as you sound.

I don't think naughty is such a terrible word. It seems quite mild to me. Naughty is what all children are sometimes, not a sort of immutable quality like having brown hair. It is something that a child can choose to be or not to be, in that all children can make good and bad choices about acceptable behaviour. I can't see how calling a child challenging is any better. I bet the children all know full well it means naughty.

When he got put on the 'Sun and Cloud', he told me because I asked him why he looked so down. He is honest and wasn't complaining that it was unfair, he was just disappointed in himself. Obviously, I reassured him that it was fine.

So you told your kid that it was fine to do something the teacher had told him not to do? Erm, why?

I think telling anyone to move out of the way is absolutely fine, if you've already asked them politely and they've ignored you. I also have a bright Y1 child and I can confirm that being bright and socially aware is no defence against the kind of selective hearing that all children seem to suffer from at times. I quite often say much ruder things to her. She does find it quite funny, but it also gets the message over when sometimes being polite/quiet is lost on her.

Charlie, If your twins fabricate the truth then that maybe something you would like to think about. My DS is confessional by nature, probably too sensitive but I have taught him to think for himself and I'm not bothered if he questions things.

Lecce it is nothing like you describe. I have never expressed my feelings about the situation to DS or to the teacher so I very much doubt he is going to cause trouble in the future. He causes absolutely no trouble in the class- according to the teachers at parents' evenings. He is academically doing very well. You have missed my point entirely.

Lecce, I prefer 'idealistic' - helps me to understand the bitter and intolerant.

Haberdashery, I said it was fine because he was disproportionately upset with himself. He corrected his behaviour in class and was put back on the sun. I don't see what I should've added to that- I was helping him get some perspective.

OP did you mean to be so rude? I wasn't critical if your child in any way so I'm a little unclear as to why you felt the need to use wuite such inflammatory language about mine?

As I said my children don't lie but if are honest we all relate stories from a) our own perspective b) setting ourselves in the best light. It's not lying but neither does it necessarily tell the whole story. That is why, after all, we hold trials and cross examine witnesses in court. I'm sure the teacher and the other children if you asked them would each have their own versions of what happened. Different as I'm sure they would be, none of them would necessarily be 'fabrications.

Re-read my post. The crux of what I said was that the teacher might have been having a bad day and that IME there is never only one version of a story.

I was genuinely trying to be helpful and I'm little perplexed as to why to responded in such an agressive manner.

You started this thread and asked for opinions, I'm not sure what you're looking for really. It's disappointing really.

all sounds normal to me, not ideal perhaps but hardly crime of the century.
Sometimes small children dont relay the entire story.. maybe the teacher said "get out of the way" as she needed the children to move quickly... rushing through with a sick bucket perhaps.

If your child is happy & enjoying school then relax!

Just read the entire thread, Goldenbear, I think you need to get a thicker skin or home educate. Your ds is going to hear & witness far worse throughout school & life in general.
If you react to every precieved injustice he will become far more sensitive.

Lighten up.

Don't see the problem with naughty or telling a child to move out the way.

As for "resourceful" - do you really think that is unprofessional?? At DS's nursery they are always praising them for perseverance or great collaboration

When it comes to myself I have get a very thick skin but yes I'm protective of my 5 year old boy. I've already said my response to his anecdotes is neutral as I don't want him to think the teachers are in the wrong and questioning the practices of the school.

I don't like the use of the word 'naughty' and I mostly think it is unjustly used with reference to two particular boys but I suppose that is none of my business really.

Charlie, I do think some children would lie about a situation just as some people lie as adults. In other words I think it is a personality trait that some have but not an age related thing. That said, I think I misunderstood you and apologise for any offence caused. I thought you were saying all children of this age embellish the truth but you weren't.

The trouble is, the 'Move out of the way' thing may sound a bit rude and abrupt when re-told in isolation, but what you son may not be telling you (and may not even be aware of himself) is that the teacher may already have said 'please stand nicely over there, children, away from the door' four or five times, but on the sixth time of no-one listening to her, she may just have got a little bit abrupt. Wouldn't we all?

And I'm sorry but I have to say you sound like one of those parents who says:

my child never hits.
my child never lies.
my child never bites.
my child would never do that.
my child would never say that.
if my child says you did xyz, then I believe it happened exactly as he said it did, and I am blinkered to the possibility that I might not be in receipt of the full facts.
my child is in a different league to all the other children in his class/age group.

In my experience, the children with those kinds of mothers are frequently the kids who are a bit of a pain in the arse.

I think you are over reacting, had the teacher called your DS a know it all little shit pot you'd have had grounds to moan. As it is...

There is a mother in every class that strikes fear and loathing into the hearts of everyone in the staffroom, and they all roll their eyes and hide in the stationery cupboard when they see you hovering in the playground and trying to get into the classroom to voice your 'concerns' once a week. OP please don't turn out to be that parent!

FellNell, there are lots of over involved parents at my DS's school but I'm not one of them! If you have read my posts you would have seen that I have been in once the whole year to speak to the teacher about DS being hit. Other than that my presence is limited to school pick ups, indeed i just make those as I hate the playground chat. I'm a parent that is NOT involved enough if the other parents are anything to go by. For instance, they had a 'show your work' to your parent event, I'd not seen any text about it and the teacher asked me if I minded and apologising (don't know why) to me for the inconvenience. The school expects lots of involvement socially- for instance there was a family camping event last year that we attended at great expense as there is a lot of pressure to do so. There is a curry and booze night at the school this week, parent drinks at a pub tonight, the alternative p.e day for adults. A bake off where you are expected to bake cakes for a competition for the school to sell.

There are parents at the school who are very socially confident, talk a lot and I mean ALOT about their children's emotional needs in a domestic context- Woody Allen kind of neurosis. One Mum I know has bought her child ear defenders for the playground because it all still very overwhelming for her. She visits her at the gate at play time. Her DD does not have SEN and she has friends.

Last year in Reception a supply teacher was brought in to cover for a week, about 4 parents went up to her demanding to know who she was even though it said on the white board outside the classroom and anyway it was quite clear who she was but these parents want to make their presence known. This year we are not allowed to take our DC in to the classroom, I would say most parents have ignored this rule. There are only a few like me the stay at the bottom of the stairs.

I hope you realise I am NOT 'one of those parents'. If you don't like 'those kind of parents' believe me you would not apply for a job at this school!

With regards to his very sophisticated observational skills and memory, I am repeating what the teacher told me at parents' evening. He is not exceptional as in a child prodigy for academic subjects. He was in a booster group for reading and is now on turquoise band and he is in top group for Maths but he isn't a child genius- never said he was. I'm not sure why people on here find that offensive.

I tell my ds to move out of the way all the time, it's not rude!

Eg- in tesco when someone can't get past with their trolley because he's standing in the way 'oops DS move out of the way and let that trolley past.'

If he's standing in the doorway and I can't get through with dds pram- 'move out of the way a minute DS so mummy can get through, thank you'

I don't see anything wrong with that!!

Golden I think the point being made is that you appear to be very precious about your DS. It rarely happens, but the responses on this thread are unanimous: you are over-reacting in the extreme. Your reaction is denial, insult and intransigence.

While I have sympathy with your wish to protect your DS (a feeling we all share as parents), you might consider the effect of your concern about trivial events. He may be bright and honest and lovely - but will he be resilient and able to function in the wider world (not just in a "progressive" school)? Or will his sensitivity be treasured to such an extent that every single small interaction is studied for potential bruising? And how will you cope with the years of primary, not to mention secondary school ahead?

All children have sophisticated observationsl skills and memory. It doesn't mean they are good judges of societal interactions. "Mummy says Aunt Karen smells-auntie is a smelly! He he he!!" When Mum has probably said, "Aunt Karen smells of wood fire or baking or.." You see how it works.

All the previous posters were trying to get this point across, but you were wilfully ignoring it. You are blinkered OP.

OP, what word, other than naughty, would you apply to the behaviour of disruptive children in class? If these same children are repeat 'offenders' as it were, and as you suspect perhaps not from the same supportive home backgrounds, school could be the only place they have an opportunity to learn about good behaviour. Naughty is one of the least negative words I can think of to describe bad behaviour in class.

If 'resourceful' is too complex a word for your highly intelligent child (and do you think the teacher can really grade her language all day every day without one slip up?!) then the appropriate synonym for 'naughty' must be kept very simple so that the children not blessed with such skills can understand it.

Or do you disagree with highlighting bad behaviour in the first place?

I don't think they do - not according to the teacher anyway!

Am enjoying a thread where 100% of replies are in agreement. Nothing to add but will read properly after work.