should I be worried to not know any details of my children levels or what is expected progress for their ages?

[educator123]

I recently came over to this section and ever since all I've done is worry

With all the talk of levels and book bands etc.

Is it unusual for a parent to not know their child's level...keep seeing this 2a etc popping up.

The teachers assure me that the children are doing well at parent evening, but how would I know. I've always liked the school and assumed I would know if something was wrong.

Now I feel like I know nothing, and would struggle to know what is the norm, and he things are ok!?

[kawliga]

I'm also and at the spelling tests disguised as kids parties! That's pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

But love the idea of writing poo and wee and sticking them on the fridge - way to make learning fun!

[Ruprekt]

Levels are strange though.

For example, for national average at the end of y2, DS should have been a level 2B. However, he went into Y3 as a level 3C so he made more progress than expected.

Now per school year he is expected to make 2 sub levels so should be a level 3A by the end of Y3 but I am fully aware that he may not make the full progress. His report may say 'not made the progress expected.'

I only get this because I am a TA at school but I know lots of people won't get it.

[learnandsay]

That's a very systematic approach. Parents are, in so many ways, outside of the system. It's so much easier I think (many may disagree) to teach your school children yourself. That way you know what they've learned.

The only reason to send them to school is because the law says you have to.

[simpson]

Ruprekt - DS is exactly the same. Now in yr3 and finished yr2 on 3C.

However his school have targetted him a 3B for the end of the year (but his teacher is pushing towards a 3A in his stronger areas).

[Ruprekt]

L&S - school is not all about levels though. It is about social skills and sharing and experiencing new things with peers. I would never HE but each to their own.

Some children will never reach the levels of others but will make some progress which is good for them.

I was trying to explain how levels are ridiculous to a teacher the other day.

When we are pregnant all we want is to see 10 fingers and toes on the scan.

Then we hope the birth goes well and we have a healthy baby.

Then we hope they reach the milestones they need to reach.

They start school and we hope they will make friends and learn to read.

We really just want them to be well rounded individuals who have friends and are happy. The rest is a bonus...........

[learnandsay]

Ruprekt, I think part of the problem is that in general, the levels are part of the teaching system. And since the parents don't understand the teaching system they don't understand the levels either. Even if the levels are explained nicely and slowly parents can understand which ones are higher and which are lower. They might even find a webpage explaining the requirements for certain levels in certain subjects, but unless they research teaching methods and spend all day in their child's classroom they won't understand exactly what's going into each piece of each level. (And nor do they need to.) But if they get fixated on the levels per-se then it's a pity. It's a bit like receiving a damaged letter in the post and getting fixated on the half of it that you did receive. I wasn't referring to HE. What I meant is that if you teach your child to read, write and do maths yourself, (and send her to school) then you don't have to worry about levels because you know perfectly well what she can do and what she can't. Of course the school can and does teach her everything else.

[PolkadotCircus]

It's progress that counts and what parents are often left in the dark about.

[mrz]

I wonder why I spent 4 years training to be a teacher if someone with no training can do it better

[educator123]

As another poster said, ultimately I want my DDs to be happy at school, esp the one in reception. To be fair the school have been great give me a daily rundown every pick up on how she has been, what times she has been upset, going out with her at playtimes to intiate some play with some other children and have been sending home her learning journey at regular intervals so i can see what she has been up to and look at photos etc. This is mainly to reassure me as they say she is mostly happy during school and they can't seem to pinpoint something which is causing her to not want to go.

It is very hard as she is literally peeled off me hysterical every drop off :( and i am starting to worry that something maybe going unmissed although, i think/hope deep down that it is purely that she would rather be at homke with me! As open ended questions to her just follow with, she doesnt like any of school and just misses me!

She is, imo, progressing well. She couldn't read at all or write her name when she started now she can write very neatly, is keen to write, can spell simple words some containing diagraphs, and seems to be enjoying reading and progressing with it. I really hope that ultimately she is happy, but i also know she is hard to read so if you don't know her well you may not notice she is upset.

It is hard as a parent to know if your child is progressing well as i personally do not know what they should/shouldn't be able to do. I suppose the level part gives a part and idea of progression if it is given on a regular basis. But i would rather know what they are teaching and how so i can support in the best way i can at home. I am more than happy to do things with my dds at home but what i don't want to do is push them, do things that aren't at their level or contrict the way something has been taught to them. It is all miles away from the way i was taught esp maths.

But tbh i had never even owrried about the childrens school or even knew about levels etc until i looked at another school then started to compare things and basically i have driven myself mad with worry!! I just want to know they are happy, the school is supporting them enough and that the will have progressed enough that by yr6 they will be ready to move onto the next level of education.

So many thing are puzzling, like the dd1's reports have a effort level next to each subject graded 1-4! I find that a bit strange to be noting a 4/5/6 yr olds effort level as i would like my children to be inspired so they are keen to learn and enjoy if not given a grade of how much effort they put in as in my eyes if they aren't putting the effort in it is probably because they are bored or have switched off!? Is this a 'normal' system.

[educator123]

To me if I child is engaged then the will be putting the 'effort' in therefore a low 'effort grade for a young child is a reflection on the teacher/lessons not the child!?
This is where I start to worry and hence why I started to look elsewhere despite the school being lovely and having a good reputation for success. Maybe I read too much into it all...

[simpson]

But LandS what do you do when your child can read?

Once they have learnt to read obviously they build on their comprehension and start to analyse the text in more detail. Why were certain words were chosen over others etc, which I would not have known if I hadn't spoken to DD's teacher.

Yes they are taught to read, write and add etc but it's the methods used (by the teacher) that are crucial IMO.

[learnandsay]

I don't think a person with no training could teach a whole class. But parents can and do teach their own children even if it's how to steal hub caps.

I haven't too many worries about what I'll do when my daughter can read extremely well. But my focus is on the three rs and not just one of them.

[mrz]

Unfortunately even the best intentions can result in confused children

[Twiceover]

"What I meant is that if you teach your child to read, write and do maths yourself, (and send her to school) then you don't have to worry about levels because you know perfectly well what she can do and what she can't."

^^Learnandsay, what is the logical conclusion of that? Do you continue to parallel teach your DD all the way through school? Will you be teaching her chemistry A-level (just for example) alongside the teachers so that you know what she can do??

And also, you know what she can do in terms of reading, writing and maths but how do you put it into context? Am not a teacher, just interested.

[poodletip]

I think it was reasonably easy in KS1 to keep on top of what she was learning and what progress she was making. DS1 is in Y1 and I can see him progressing nicely. By the time she was in KS2 though she could already read (she could read, carefully selected, books written for adults before she was 7 though she rarely chose to since they weren't usually of interest), and the maths she was doing was using methods that I know nothing about (being completely different to the way I was taught at school). At that point it did become difficult for me to monitor progress without a clear indication from school of where she was.

Clearly, as I experienced, a teacher saying she was doing well meant nothing. Being told "ahead of expectations" meant nothing. Clear information about what level she is at and how that compares to her previous levels gives me an indication that she is (or not) making progress. I realise it is an imperfect measure but it's better than nothing. I should add that I'm more concerned to see that she she is making progress than what level she is at per se. If she isn't making progress what it the point of her going to school?

[mrz]

The government plan to scrap the current levelling system but haven't said what it will be replaced with

[kawliga]

I agree with LandS that teaching children to read, write and do maths at least to a level where they can stand on their own feet in modern society is fundamentally the job of the parents. It is not 'parallel teaching', it is making sure your dc are able to be functional and participate fully in life. Because school is compulsory we support the teachers in the methods they are using, definitely, but to wash your hands of the matter and think it's the teacher's role to teach them and just report back to you on progress would be unwise.

Mrz not sure what you mean by training. A certain kind of 'teaching' is part of the role of parenting, and parents don't need to be trained to do the kind of teaching which is rolled up with being a parent and bringing up the children. Like LandS said it's not the same kind of formal teaching that goes on at school that needs training and professional expertise. No one needs training to be a parent and bring up the dc to be able to read and write and add, subtract, multiply and divide at least by the time they're old enough to go out and about on their own.

It is just utterly tragic when parents feel as if they have no way of knowing whether the dc are making progress with basic learning unless the teacher tells them! Then the teacher says 'great progress to level 2c sub-level 2.4 above national average' or whatever and the parents are happy but still in the dark, still no idea how well their dc can read.

[mrz]

"training" as in knowing when to teach each step and not jump ahead so that a child has missed sometimes vitally important stages that will be required later. As parents we eagerly anticipate each new milestone and I for one have been guilty of impatience.

[mrz]

Do you really need a number and letter (that's the sub level bit level 2 sub level C) to tell you how well your child is reading?

[christinarossetti]

Well, tbh the numbers and letters do help me a bit. I feel reassured as to where she is in relation to national expectations. I don't particularly like the current system but, given that it's what's there, I'd like to know where my children are in it iyswim.

[mrz]

Can I ask if the numbers and letters are more reassuring than the teachers saying where she is in relation to national expectations

[kawliga]

The OP on this thread did not find the numbers and letters reassuring. On the contrary, not knowing what '2c' means made her feel like she knows nothing. No mother should ever feel like they don't know how their dc are getting on because they can't interpret the experts' numbers and letters. Certainly not when the dc are this young. Might be different when they're older.

Probably starts from birth when some midwives make mothers feel as if they know nothing, they need the midwife to plot graphs and charts and percentiles, weigh and measure the baby and compare him/her to the national average size of baby otherwise how will they know whether the baby is thriving or not? But that's another thread.

[mrz]

I agree with the OP the numbers and letters alone mean nothing

[poodletip]

No the numbers in isolation don't mean anything. Our school send them home with a letter that clearly explains where a child would be expected to be at the end of each year, what would be behind and what would be ahead. I also look at them in the context of where the children were previously so that I can see if progress is being made or not.

I'm astonished that anyone would send their children to school at all if they have so little faith that they would learn to read, write and do maths to a level that enabled them to function as an adult! If I had that little faith in school I would be home educating. As it is my children spend over 30 hours a week at school learning. They then have homework to do at home. The last thing I'm going to do is give the poor sods more work to do with me. I can't think of a better way of turning them off learning. It's bad enough getting them to do their homework from school. Their time with me is for relaxing, enjoying time together as a family and doing other non academic activities and hobbies.

[learnandsay]

Well, no sign of confusion here yet, and my daughter can read, write (to some extent) add up and take away. I think having a fear of teaching your children basic skills is plain silly. If anyone feels that they can but chooses not to that's their own affair.