Are the staff in your school really stressed?

[christinarossetti]

A question for both teachers and parents/carers.

I've had a number of conversations today with parents and teachers from different schools and realised that there's been a reoccurring theme of teachers saying how stressed they are and parents saying how stressed the teachers seem to be.

Ofsted will be in our school next half-term, so obviously people very stressed.

Is this normal in education at the moment, or is it just the people I know?

[shebird]

It must be stressful to be a teacher and be so constrained to 'one size fits all' approach to teaching. Its simply crazy to think that there is only one way to teach a subject but don't get me started on that

[MerryCouthyMows]

When you have a DC that leaves Y6 STILL not knowing their number bonds to 10, because the school 'are not allowed' to take her right back to the beginning and work from there onwards, you realise that something has gone very wrong with education.

As soon as She went to Secondary school, and they DID take her RIGHT back to the beginning, she started making progress after not having made ANY progress between YR and Y6.

OK, she is still behind, working on Lvl 4 (just) in Y10, but she is at least FUNCTIONAL.

She may have been far better than that if the Primary school had gone back to the beginning in Y2, when I first asked them to, than leaving it for another 5 years, which was 5 years of progress lost because they had to follow some arbitary, frankly STUPID box ticking exercise that said that they had taught every DC in the class to multiply 2-digit numbers.

Which is of precisely FUCK ALL USE to a DC that can't yet work out that 1+2=3!!

If teachers were given more leeway to teach in the way that suited their individual pupils best, maybe far LESS pupils would be leaving school illiterate and innumerate.

I'm not saying teachers shouldn't be monitored - far from it. There ARE rotten teachers out there, that really SHOULDN'T be teaching. But it needs to be made easier for HT's to actually get RID of useless teachers, rather than them just being 'moved on' to yet another school. Which DOES happen.

But the current type of monitoring is all wrong.

What do parents need to see? That a DC that starts the year on a lvl 1c can end the year on a lvl 1a, that the DC that starts the year on a lvl 7a can end the year on a lvl 8b. Nothing more. The parents ONLY want to see that their DC is making PROGRESS, regardless of their starting level.

And IMO, it's quite easy to measure PROGRESS, without forcing teachers into the frankly ridiculous situation where they are photocopying whiteboards to prove that they are doing mental maths with a class.

(BTW, the preferred method for that at my DC's Primary is for the class teacher to turn on the camera on their laptop and record the class doing Mental maths. We all had to sign forms to say that we would be OK with them filming occasional lessons for 'teacher development')

It's just bloody DAFT.

I don't care about the teachers PROVING they have done mental maths with my DC. I care that my DC can now add up 1+2=3, AND 2+2=4, when last week they couldn't.

[CailinDana]

Sorry I'm a roll now! But it just seemed to me that in Ireland it was about the children - you get them to the end of sixth class (final year of primary) with a set of essential skills come hell or high water. How you get them there isn't really relevant (within reason!) - neat copy books with the date written in, shiny displays, "added value" bullshit, isn't relevant, that's just trimmings. If a child can read well, do a range of basic maths and has a starting knowledge of science history and geography you've done your job. You can use textbooks, you can teach the same thing 50 times till everyone grasps it, you can do extra drama with a very academic class who needs a break from the grind, that's your call.

Here in England it seems to be about the school, not the children. So the children are there to produce work where you are proving the school is operating according to a certain prescribed standard. It's important that the walls are covered in posters and displays. It's important that the children produce the right level of work at the right time in the right quantity to prove that OFSTED criteria are met. So in my triangles example it didn't matter to the HT that those children were going away with a bit of extra maths knowledge that might make the topic easier for them in future (plus they were enjoying it) it just mattered that I'd already produced the required level 4 and why was I going beyond that? I'd served the school adequately already. The children didn't matter.

Similarly I had a couple of children who couldn't grasp the idea of chunking for long division. In Ireland the attitude would be "a child can't leave primary without having some way of doing long division" and so you'd just try a few methods until they got it. Here, the chunking method is the approved method, and it serves the school to be able to show that they are using the approved method. So the child leaves school without being able to do long division, but who cares, you served the school's agenda.

[MerryCouthyMows]

I wish I had moved DD to NI for primary!

The rigorous sticking like glue to a prescribed method of doing things REALLY harmed my DD's education (she has multiple SN's). It was only when she got to Secondary, and they didn't have to show things to the same n'th degree that she actually made ANY progress.

Why HAS education become like this? I only left Primary school 16 years before my DD did (yes, I was a very young parent...), and there was none of this nonsense that long division MUST be done by chunking, reading MUST be learnt using phonics, it was all about making sure that ALL DC's left Y6 with the ability to read and do long division, no matter how they did it, as long as they COULD do it!

What went wrong in between 1991 when I left Y6, and 2002 when DD started Reception?!

[shebird]

It's all about OFSTED and getting or maintaining the schools desired level.

[MerryCouthyMows]

And no, that isn't 16 years - I LEFT primary 16 years before DD LEFT - she started Primary school just 10 years after I left! Though I think it was actually 1992 that I finished Y6, thinking about it. I started Y6 in September 1991, so would have left in July 1992.

[MerryCouthyMows]

Well Oftsed is a load of crap then!



(Not that I didn't KNOW that already, for many and varied reasons)

[LaBelleDameSansPatience]

CailinDana, I think 'chunking' is now officially OUT?

Merry, you want a FT teacher with no time for PPA .... so that that teacher can support your child with SN - which I can understand.

I am a parent; I understand how defensive and anxious one feels about one's own children and how one's own child is the most important thing in the whole world.

But if I am to be forced to go FT, in school from before 8am until after 6pm and then working every evening, I might as well just have my own daughter adopted and be done with it; as it is I spend half my time at home just saying, No, I can't do that with you, I am planning/marking/reading initiatives/finding resources.

[CailinDana]

Is it LaBelle? I'm out of the game two years so I've lost track of all that shit (thank fuck). What's the fashionable thing these days?

[LaBelleDameSansPatience]

I am working on a day-by-day basis until the holiday comes when I can do some more indepth planning, so not sure yet, Cailin.

I just wrote a really, long, detailed post about all the extra things I have to do in my PPA time, which obviously so annoys some parents, which cannot be done by anyone else - if there were anyone else - and then pressed the wrong button. [sobs] It totally proved that all planning and marking can only be done at home while my poor child sits white and neglected in a corner, begging for attention. Most of my attention, at home as much as at school, is focussed on my class. And then they talk about longer school days and complain about job shares and PT teachers.

[CailinDana]

Well it's nice to know that a few of my lovely year 6 group left primary not knowing how to do long division because of a fad that's been thrown out two years later. Totally worth it I'm sure . I'm sure the next fad will be just as sensible.

[MoppingMummy]

I am a part time teacher. I was feeling horribly, horribly stressed, so handed my notice in at Christmas. I left my primary school on Friday - best decision of my life!

In the past year, 4 teachers have been off with long term stress and then resigned. 3 others, including myself left the school the proper way . At least 2 others are actively looking & applying for other jobs.

The pressures and expectations are too much for anyone not to feel stressed and anxious.

[CailinDana]

Mopping - two years after quitting I still feel a wave of relief when I remember I'm not going to back it :) I now work very part time in a great job that I love and that earns me far more per hour than teaching did. It fits in completely with my life and give me zero stress. I absolutely loved teaching children, but as others have said, that's just a tiny part of what teaching is about these days. With all the other shit the benefit of being with the children is totally cancelled out by everything else. I have dreams where I'm teaching and I miss it so badly I want to cry, then I remember that I don't have to make another display, or mark 150 books and I get over it :)

[mrz]

Reading this I feel so lucky to work in a school where teaching comes first. Planning is a tool for the teacher and is not onerous. We don't have paper mountains to prove what we know and we do have a head and governors who support their staff.

[Timetoask]

CailinDana: did you consider moving to the private sector? Is it different there?

[goinnowhere]

Yes. And it is due to Ofsted. Nothing else. Everyone has days where a class might cause you grief. The constant grinding stress atm is Ofsted. And we don't even know when they'll descend.

[CailinDana]

I honestly don't know Timetotask. I quit to coincide with maternity leave and wasn't planning on going back to work at all - the job I have now is one that just popped up by chance. I think in the future I'll consider doing some tutoring just to get my hand back in on the teaching side of things, which I really enjoy.

[CailinDana]

Goin - I found that the stress caused by the children themselves was always fleeting, it never bothered me much. All the real stress came from the system. Which is stupid when you think about it.

[Timetoask]

Cailindana: it just seems such a shame for you to give up a career you obviously love, I hope you don't regret it. Maybe you need a change of school.
So sorry to,hear about the stress that teachers are going through, and so happy that my dc are going private.

[CailinDana]

Time - I did bouts of long term supply so I taught in a lot of different schools (none private though). The last school I taught in was the best by far, but I was only part time there which helped a lot. Even though that school was great, I still wouldn't go back to it. For me it wasn't really the workload that got me down, as I can work at lightning speed when I need to, it was more the pointlessness of it. I don't mind doing a lot of work when it's warranted, but trudging up to the photocopier with the whiteboards just made me die a bit inside. Plus the lack of autonomy and creativity and the constant target setting just took all the positives out of it for me. Unless that all changes I just won't go back to it.

[DumSpiroSpero]

I work at a large maintained nursery school and our staff are definitely stressed although a lot of work is being done to sort out the issues and some of it is just 'luck' - lots of staff turnover for personal reasons etc.

DD is at our local primary and if the staff there are stressed they do a great job of not showing it - they are really great. That said, I've just been appointed as a parent governor so I might be about to get a rude awakening.

The political aspect of education is extraordinary and does detract a lot from the actual job at times imho.

[exoticfruits]

I read your post CailinDana thinking this is utter madness! Unfortunately I was nodding and agreeing with everything- every single thing!
I am a much older teacher and it is a different job from when I started. You were treated as a professional, once upon a time, and you could choose how you taught. You started with the children that you had and worked with what suited them. Now you start with the curriculum and the children have to fit it, ready or not. In maths, if they didn't get something you could spend longer on it. Now you get to the end of a week on fractions, they are struggling but the new week starts and you are onto 3D shape and it is 'never mind- they revisit fractions on week 5 of next term! I am positive that if they got more practise with things and experienced success they would be much better at it. At the same time, those that get a concept quickly don't need lots of practise.
Most teachers get fed up with the constant change. You get the latest idea, often one that you have misgivings about, but before it has had very long, the 'powers that be' think it wasn't working- and it is all change again.
Sometimes it is lovely just to get completely out of it. In one job I had a short term of just working with the 18 DCs who were top in Literacy in year 5 and they were great writers. I always hate the fact that anything in Literacy is in very short bursts. I asked the Head if we could actually write books, with chapters. She let me and it was wonderful! We didn't have to have an objective every lesson and the usual division of the lesson. They came in and wrote! They illustrated , they did the covers, they wrote the blurb on the back, etc etc- they were so excited they took them home to do some and the end products were if a very high standard. It gave me time to work with individuals. I bet they all remember it and I bet they all still have the books. It was the sort if thing that makes teaching so exciting and worthwhile.
Now it is so much the same. You all have to mark the same - it muddles me up when you have to use pink marker for the positive(tickled pink) and green for the mistakes ( room for growth).
You are also teaching for the test - in my final job I was doing one to one tuition for 'weak' yr 6 pupils (another example of waste of money) and it was very much -'to get a level 4 you need to do x,y and z'.
I wouldn't mind if it was better, but when I look up old pupils to see what they are doing now they all seem to be doing very well.

[exoticfruits]

It isn't the children that cause the stress. As a supply teacher the 'difficult' children were fine if the Head and SM had a system and stuck to it. The schools I loved were the ones with the friendly, supportive staff. The ones where you were 'the supply' and were left completely on your own - just to get the comment at the end of the day 'I see you met Josh'! We're the ones that I never went back to- you expect them to tell you about Josh at the start if the day- and more importantly how to handle him.
I would agree that it is the pointlessness of it. Why write detailed lesson plans when you know exactly what you are going to do and, at the most need a few cryptic notes,when no one is ever going to read them?