Y3 help?

[ihearttc]

Sorry didn't quite now how to word this!

Just wondered if any teachers could help if possible? DS1 is in Y3 at a Junior School (this is relevant I think). When they did their SATS last year he got 3's across all the subjects. It wasn't written what levels on report but teacher said he was 3B in Maths and 3C in literacy.

When they assessed them at the start of Y3 he was apparently 3C in Maths and 2A in literacy...fair enough to be expected after holidays I suppose despite the fact that he did reading and maths in the holidays. They have now been assessed again and he is now a 2A in Maths and a 2C in Literacy. He is a little boy that takes everything to heart and is so upset and I don't quite know what to do to help him.

I totally understand about different teachers and with it being different schools (they are linked though) then obviously there will be variations but is it really normal for him to both fail to improve and in my opinion fall quite drastically in that period of time?

He isn't fond of writing I will say that but Im a bit stuck as to why this has happened? He is "free reading" if you can call it that...school books are a bit short on the ground (well the ones he enjoys!) so he is reading some Michael Morpugo ones (Billy the Kid etc), David Walliams and he has just finished Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. What sort of level is a 2C?

It honestly doesn't matter to me what level he is on...just want to make that clear but Im surprised that he has "fallen" this much and he is bothered by it and I want to help him.

Oh and if anyone can point me in the direction of some more books he might enjoy that would be great!

[Feenie]

jodieworld - what you've said about

[Feenie]

jodieworld - what you've said about tests was true up until 2005, but you are 8 years out of date with your information. As mrz says, year 2 assessment is now teacher assessment, and the tests play a very small part in this. Year 3 assessment in most schools has also moved on - it's very bad practice to assess using tests only.

[Feenie]

Also, the y2 test is just asking a CPU

[Feenie]

Also, the y2 test doesn't necessarily involve a 'couple of questions' - teachers may choose to use the level 2 reading comprehension paper, albeit not timed like y3's. But assessment should never solely involve tests in either year, like the bad old days. It just isn't an issue now, whereas ore 2005 we had all the difficulties you describe, because the two assessment systems were incomparable then.

[Taffeta]

jodieworld "Fourthly it is very much normal for a boy who isn't a massive reader (i.e. most of them at that age) to really go off it for a while when they hit Year 3 and reading is no longer just for fun and decoding words but suddenly they have to not only read the thing but someone is going to ask them very hard questions about what they read when all they wanted to do was pass the "reading" test. This is a huge leap and many boys struggle here."

Thank you so much for posting this, I have never read this on MN before and it is exactly in line with my DS's experience. It has taken a big, big effort on his, the school's and my part at home in getting his reading back up in Y4.

[Acinonyx]

Interesting. Dd was a really voracious reader and well ahead. But from entering y3 (this year) she just stopped reading voluntarily completely. I'm quite sad about it and hope that her interest will come back. I've mentioned her total aversion to reading but no-one cares in the least as she is well-ahead when tested.

In fact, the fact that no-one cares how she feels about a subject as long as she's doing well bugs me. Dd hates maths and cries over her homework - but I have been told firmly (several times) that everything is absolutely fine and I 'should be very happy with her progress'. But dd clearly isn't happy .

[jodieworld]

I am a current (outstanding according to Ofsted btw) teacher, I cannot be 8 years out of date am afraid. Teacher assessment is the level that has to be included for results to the LA and beyond but you clearly thought I meant "test" in the way you think SATs. testing is done to inform teacher assessment. this is taken into consideration along with ongoing work results ie a number of pieces of writing.And in majority of Year 3s a QCA test is used to inform Teacher Assessment. which is exactly the jump for the child I am talking about. I work with a lot of teachers and schools on assessment. Although a teacher assessment is used for final level, 90% on average inform this with some sort of formal test or lots of mini tests through the year. I was trying to allay fears and be constructive. I am sorry others feel the need to attack me for my comments

[jodieworld]

Also, I am not saying I advocate use of testing to get results/determine lebels. But I can tell you the fact is it happens. Especially among New teachers who often feel ill equipped to judge a level just from reading a piece of writing. Where APP is used it is often 6 children per class tracked on APP as a moderation of levels.

[learnandsay]

Don't worry, jodie. If you stick around long enough you'll find out that some of the teachers hereabouts do group replies, or attacks, as you've phrased it. You can think of all of them as a composite but single response.

[jodieland]

It has not been my intention to cause any offence I can assure everyone. I am new to Mumsnet and just saw a topic I thought I could help on I.e. to reassure a concerned parent. I have obviously not realised some protocol and apologise for that. I will read more forums and see what protocol is. Not sure if group message means I should only respond by name? Most forums I use group response in thread is the norm so maybe is wrong here? Help appreciated.
ps nickname changed to reflect lower status :-) Will stay as jodieland now :-)
I have genuinely joined mumsnet not as a teacher but wannabe parent. I only chose this thread first as it stood out as something I could offer advice on as teacher - cannot offer mum help yet as no babies yet. Hoping the experienced mums can help me there! x

[learnandsay]

Jodie, the only protocols are the ones published by mumsnet. The only other "protocol" is if you want to post your opinion then post it. It's a public forum. The people who choose to make group postings only do it because they want to behave like that. There's no protocol for doing it.

[jodieland]

thank you learnandsay for helping a newbie :-)

[mrz]

Teacher assessment is the level that has to be included for results to the LA No jodieland Teacher assessment is what has to be reported page 26 of the ARA

8. Reporting results of the end of Key Stage 1 assessments to local authorities

Schools must report the following for all children:
? a teacher assessment level in reading, writing, and speaking and listening;
? a separate teacher assessment level for each science attainment target; and
? an overall teacher assessment level in mathematics and science.

Schools are not required to report task and test results to their local authority or the next school when a child moves.

I'm sorry you feel attacked but misinformation is misinformation

[jodieland]

I am not saying they report the test result. The teacher does a test and uses that result to "inform" their teacher assessment. It is a very common practice and in some LAs is encouraged.

[jodieland]

mrz you are correct in that is gov guidelines but I see the practice in schools I work with. Teachers sit with their head/deputy each term with two columns. Test and Teacher Assessment. They must then explain any vast differences between the two. The teacher Assessment column is the only column that has to be seen by anyone but the school but some schools feel they cannot justify if the test and TA are vastly different. Not all schools. I know many who have dropped all summative testing and trust the teacher judgement. But using tests to inform teacher assessment is also still very common even though not required at DfE level.

[mrz]

It is a legal requirement

[mrz]

If teacher assessment and task and test results differ, the teacher assessment results should be reported, provided the judgement is based on an appropriate range of evidence from work completed in class.

[mrz]

The ARA is a legal document not government guidelines jodieland
Schools cannot drop summative assessment in Y2 as it is a legal requirement.

[Feenie]

Then those schools will inevitably come across the discrepancy you describe which was the problem pre-2005 - what atrocious practice.

Many LEAs have a set checklist for moderation which includes a check to ensure schools do not 'over rely' on test results.

I'm surprised you see the test option as widespread - that certainly isn't borne out by evidence from TES threads or on MN, or moderation forms from other LEAs. I'm not sure there is evidence if it in the OP's school either, so am not sure those comments were helpful, but am prepared to be corrected.

I disagree strongly that it is standard practice - and we are allowed to disagree on MN!

Your comments on level 3 papers were also absolute rubbish, btw, but I let those go

[jodieland]

I am not disagreeing with these guidelines at all mrz you are very much correct. But wrong as it may be it is happening at many schools. I work with many schools on assessment and am always delighted when I find one following these rules. But I am afraid the majority still do testing as much as they had to under the old 2005 requirements. I moved schools for this very reason not so long ago as my teacher assessment "had to be informed with formal tests and could not be then altered by more than one sub level"
I wish I didn't have to say that but it is unfortunately the truth.

[Feenie]

Government guidelines? That's quite funny

[mrz]

jodieland you keep calling them guidelines they aren't they are statutory requirements that schools must follow by law. If schools aren't following them they are acting illegally

[Feenie]

It's a statutory document - heads can be prosecuted for not adhering to it! Guidelines, lol.

[gymboywalton]

he shouldn't KNOW what level he is-why have you told him what level he is?

very often kids come into year 3 with an elevated mark- senior management will look at the stats and wonder who they can bump up a bit.


a drop for 2a to 2c in literacy would worrry me too-can you talk to his teacher about it?

[jodieland]

Feenie I am really pleased you have not seen it as widespread. I certainly have in most London boroughs but this may not be indicative of UK wide and I would much rather you were right in all honesty. As I said, I left a school because of it being pushed so hard. Every child was expected to know their levels to the point of quoting where they lost points! Was disconcerting to say the least. There are more schools moving away from tests thankfully.