Flipping heck. DD book this week is....

[Shattereddreams]

y1
Scheme is ORT once a week, the old ones which I thought at 20 years plus was bad enough.....

Today she bought home on the non scheme book day.....

Mr Brown's goat. It was written in 1972. The infamous Roger red hat and Billy blue hat.

It's utter tripe. Repetitive tripe.

Is anyone else subjected to these? Weren't they banned?????

[Feenie]

The look and say method was invented on a whim, following no research whatsoever.

Who said this? It's bollocks. There was a perfectly good reason for inventing it.

It's fact. There was absolutely no research to back it up. Incredible, isn't it?

[bruffin]

Its also fact it didnt work for a lot of children.

[learnandsay]

It was invented in 1744 by Abbe Bertaud and developed by Abbe de l'Eppe (around 1760) for the teaching of deaf mutes. Thomas Gallaudet successfully used it for teaching deaf mutes in America around 1836 when he produced a reading primer for hearing children called "A Mother's Primer" and it's all been going wrong ever since. I can tell you how it got introduced into the American education system too, by a great man who unfortunately knew lots about politics but bugger all about teaching reading!

[bruffin]

It dieing matter what the history was it failed too man children.

[mrz]

and the perfectly good reason and research behind the method learnandsay?

[mrz]

Back in the early 1900s, when the professors of education were working overtime to find ?scientific? justification for changing reading instruction in American schools from alphabetic phonics to the look-say, sight, or whole-word method, many studies were done to see what type of effect the new teaching method would have on children?s reading ability.

One study done by Myrtle Sholty, published in the February 1912 issue of the Elementary School Teacher, revealed that the two methods of teaching reading produced two different types of readers: objective and subjective. The alphabetic-phonics method produced fluent, accurate, objective readers while the sight method produced impaired subjective readers who guessed at words, omitted words, inserted words, substituted words, and mutilated words. The sight readers? lack of phonetic knowledge put them at a distinct disadvantage. They were unable to accurately decode the words since they looked at them as whole configurations, like Chinese characters, with no connections to the sounds of the language.

[Feenie]

Invention/introduction is not the same as research to show that it is successful, which was the point I was making.

I can tell you how it got introduced into the American education system too, by a great man who unfortunately knew lots about politics but bugger all about teaching reading!

You will know then that wherever it was introduced, reading scores plummeted.

[mrz]

I'm quite amused that learnandsay found that on Susan Goslands site

[Feenie]

[LadyFlumpalot]

I learned to read on the Puddle Lane books. I loved those!

[mrz]

Reading researcher Geraldine Rodgers, in an unpublished manuscript on the history of reading instruction, states that Sholty?s experiment merely confirmed what had been discovered in 1903 by German psychologist Oskar Messmer, who had identified the two types of readers. Rodgers wrote:

When William Scott Gray [future editor of ?Dick and Jane?] published his summary of American reading research in 1925, which has been the foundation for all ?histories? of ?reading research? ever since, he ?naturally? omitted Messmer?s German work, and ?accidentally? misreported Sholty?s research in his brief summary so that it was no longer recognizable concerning either its nature or its conclusions.

[Loshad]

Back to the main point OP, i think an unfortunate accident to the book is the way forward. I am the most law abiding person going, but when DS1 many years ago brought home an outdated racist enid blyton book from the school library i returned it with a polite note offering to replace it. No reply. The following year DS2 brought it home as well, whereas it sadly met with a dog related accident, and a generous cheque to replace it sent by means of apology.

[80sMum]

I learned to read through a combination of "look and say" and phonics - and so did my DCs. Personally I think that is the best way to learn.

[mrz]

unfortunately it doesn't work for a large number of children

[learnandsay]

Deaf people can't hear, mrz.

[mrz]

are you deaf learnandsay?

[mrz]

www.ndcs.org.uk/professional_support/news/phonics_and_the.html

[ProlificWillyBreeder]

I love Billy Blue Hat!
I agree Winnoe

[mrz]

www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/courses/deaf/doct06b.html

[ProlificWillyBreeder]

Ok phone isn't working: I like Winnie the Witch and is much brighter etc.

[learnandsay]

No, I'm not.

[mrz]

So it isn't only deaf people who can't hear

[learnandsay]

Quite right, people in a noisy environment can't either. What's your point?

[mrz]

and lots of deaf people have a degree of hearing.

[mrz]

and there's none so blind as those who will not see