Stop Schools Cheating Please

[twiggles]

Whatever your child is like, some primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start off at the low end, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching. If your child's advanced , some schools in rich areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point in development and then got much better because of the teaching at the school....when the fact is the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and as the school is giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards. Tha's what many schools do so they can pretend they've developed everything in the child, they want all children to be the same standard, like a photocopier. Poor children. Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors. This is happending all over the show and I can't understand why inspectors are allowing them to get away with it. If parents start grading teachers in the school every three months the teachers won't be able to hide what's going on to the inspectors and teachers who are pretending might stop. Teachers that aren't giving inspectors the facts need to be stopped...they're not giving children an honest education.

[cumbrialass]

( and I have a 2i but it's only from a Russell Group university ( and from the days when a University education actually meant something!) together with a post graduate and masters qualification in education) Most teachers actually see value in a decent education you know!

[Feenie]

Teachers need to answer to the people, parents, who are responsible for providing the children that give the teachers their jobs.

Why, when you have failed to answer anything asked of you on this thread?

[Feenie]

What I'm saying is that parents must be put right at the top.

Really? I put children at the top. Gosh, I must be really crap, then....

[teacherwith2kids]

In terms of hours devoted to 'answering to people', I probably spend more hours answering to parents (in the form of face to face meetings to discuss issues or concerns) than to any other group except the children themselves.

I am observed for more hours, and get a fuller cross-section of my teaching practice, by my professional peers and by my head, but for 'hours in face to face contact / discussing concerns', parents / guardians would be ahead.

The slant is different, of course - a parent's main concern is their child, while professional colleagues will look across the whole range of my work, but in terms of 'hours spent' I would not say that I 'put parents last'.

[learnandsay]

Parents can run their own schools these days. So maybe the problem will go away.

[tethersend]

"Teachers need to answer to the people, parents, who are responsible for providing the children that give the teachers their jobs."

True.

In fact, I think we should send them thank you letters for keeping food on our tables. Or something.

[teacherwith2kids]

Having cross-posted with Feenie, I would emphasise 'than to any other group except the children themselves'.

My primary focus, as a teacher, is for every single child to make progress. Those with 'in your face' parents, those with 'in the background' parents, those who are bright, those who have difficulties - doesn't make a difference. My job is to ensure that every single one of them makes the maximum progress they are capable of. To do that well, I don't need to be 'more answerable' to anyone. In fact I probably need to spend less time answering to people, and more time actually making a difference to every child....

[twiggles]

Parents know what they experience with the teacher and what their children tell them about the teacher. Parents also know whether or not the teacher is communicative. If a teacher is not up to scratch in some ways, the parent will know and a child will usually say something that gives the parent more feedback. Parents know which teachers are the good and which teachers are not. Parents usually know the plus and negative points of teachers. Grading teachers would keep them on their toes and help to make sure teachers treat parents with respect.

[Lifeissweet]

What you are talking about is really dangerous, Twiggles. If you grade your doctor, you will make comments about your experience of being treated by that doctor - how well they listened to you, how good their advice was...etc. What are you going to judge your child's teacher on? You can comment on their communication with parents - that's fair enough. You have first hand experience of that, but that is it. Everything else is second hand information. You are not the service user of a school - your child is.

You are talking here about the possibility of a good teacher being hounded out of a job by parents who due to wrong impressions, personality clashes, school gate gossip and second hand information. I am not popular with some parents because I tell them the truth about their child and they don't like to hear that sometimes - however supportive I am and however gently I approach it. Do I deserve a bad rating because that parent doesn't like what I have to say about their child's behaviour?

I answer to people who watch me teach, who look at my planning, who follow the children's tracking data and who understand what I am trying to achieve with all of the children in my class. That interests me more than what parents feel about my teaching based on...what exactly?

[Lifeissweet]

Sorry - in rather a flap. That paragraph was supposed to read: who due to wrong impressions, personality clashes, school gate gossip and second hand information have become a victim of a bad rating.

and yes, I do have a 2:1 from a good university, and a PGCE and a Masters. Thanks.

[cory]

If parents are put at the top and get to decide the teachers' destiny single-handed, how many teachers will be downgraded because they told PFB off for bullying or insisted that they complete their work?

How do you know, OP, that all the other parents would support your ideas of wanting high standards and hard work? What about the parents who were not supportive of these ideas, but who thought education was overrated and noone must make their child exert himself- should their voice be equally weighty?

We had an excellent Spanish teacher at my secondary: hardworking, highly competent, inspiring, got excellent results. A few years after I left I heard that she had been hounded out by parents because the pupils thought she made them do too much work. The school was the poorer for it.

I believe in schools listening to parents. But not exclusively to parents, nor in them treating every single parent as if they

[mrz]

Some years ago I had the misfortune to work with a useless teacher (not just my opinion) but the parents loved him because he spun them lies. Probably helped that he was tall dark and reasonably good looking and flirted with them.

[tethersend]

In the nicest possible way twiggles, have you thought about getting out a bit more? Maybe doing some sort of a course?

How about flower arranging? Or a PGCE?

[twiggles]

Grading a teacher is no work for the teacher. It would be the parents who are doing the work! It would help encourage all teachers to make sure they maximise the progress of every children through out the academic year, not just the few whose parents might have links to the school or whom they might have another gain. It would help make sure a teacher takes greater care to be accurate and doesn't make comments that aren't factual.

[ipadquietly]

twiggles It goes both ways. 30% of my KS1 class never read at home. I have communicated with the parents and have told them that reading at home would help their children's progress. I have offered children merit marks if they read at home; I continue to write weekly notes in their blank home reading diaries.

Believe it or not, some of these parents get mighty pissed off when I hassle them about doing 10 minutes reading 3-4 times a week at home.

Do you feel that the parents who don't give a toss about their children's education should be involved in your national grading exercise?

[Lifeissweet]

I don't consider that parents AT ALL when assessing my children. Who would do that?!

You have an extremely strange view of what goes on in schools, Twiggles. May I suggest you send your child to school elsewhere if this is what is going on?

[teacherwith2kids]

Conversation between parent and teacher (slightly adapted to remove some aggressive language from parent at the beginning):

Parent "Little Johnny says that you kept him in at break yesterday"
Teacher "Yes, did he tell you why?"
Parent "No,he said that you were unfair and hated him"
Teacher "So he didn't tell you that he had punched another child in the stomach and then swore at a lunchtime supervisor?"
Parent "No"
Teacher "There were witnesses to the attack and your child admitted what had happened"
Parent "Oh, he didn't tell me that, he just told me that you were the worst tacher he had ever had".

Sometimes children are not the most reliable reporters on a teacher's quality!

[teacherwith2kids]

"It would help encourage all teachers to make sure they maximise the progress of every children through out the academic year, not just the few whose parents might have links to the school or whom they might have another gain. It would help make sure a teacher takes greater care to be accurate and doesn't make comments that aren't factual. "

But that is what I do - and what the vast majority of teachers do. I'm really sorry about your experience with your child's school, I really am, but take it up with them individually rather than smearing a whole profession incorrectly on a public forum.

[Lifeissweet]

In fact, I would go so far as to say that parents don't figure much in most of what I do as a teacher. I keep them informed. I meet with them. I discuss their children with them, but when I plan, when I deliver a lesson, when I discipline, when I assess and mark...I am thinking only of the child. The parent doesn't cross my mind. Is this not how you would prefer it?

[Labro]

'what their children tell them about the teacher' - thats a dangerous thing to grade a professional on! My ds hates his french teacher with a passion, why? Because she actually had the audacity to expect him to do some french in a french lesson rather than day dreaming about steam trains! On the other hand, he loves his science teacher because she is young, very pretty and allows them to blow things up! There are way too many factors which affect how a child feels about a teacher to actually use this feedback to make an objective assessment of their skills.

[Feenie]

Twiggles, are you actually going to interact with anyone who us telling you why this isn't a good idea, or provide any of the evidence you have been asked for?

Do you think this lack of ability to interact with anyone or provide justifcation for anything, at all, whatsoever, makes you a reliable candidate to rate teachers?

On the up side, congrats on managing to have a thread with posts which don't get you deleted.

[cumbrialass]

Teachers HAVE to maximise the progress of every child in their class, this is what we are measured on ( although I don't think there's a vunerable group entitled "Children of parents with links to school or from whom I have something to gain" so these particular children aren't measured seperately!)

[Lifeissweet]

Teachers have different strengths - like all human beings. Some grab attention and put on an interesting show, some have a great rapport with parents, some can explain an idea in a way that children grab on to, some are excellent facilitators - enabling children to learn for themselves, some are superbly organised and keep perfect records and paperwork - many teachers are combinations of all of these things, but I would hate to think that an excellent teacher got a bad 'grade' because a disproportionate emphasis on how a teacher comes across to the parents. It is not a good marker on which to judge a complex profession.