Learning to read in Y1 & Y2

[learnandsay]

How unusual is it for a primary school to focus its attention in YR on teaching the letter sounds, maybe some digraphs, perhaps one or two trigraphs (or maybe not even) and learning (whatever that means) lists of HFW, but not to any great extent turn attention to reading actual books (of any kind)?

And the school thereby, presumably, places the emphasis of learning to read books (of whatever kind) onto Y1 and beyond? And, if one's school has such a system how does one approach it if one's child already reads books quite well and has done throughout Reception? Getting the Reception teacher up to speed with the child's reading has taken a while, but it's getting there. Does one expect to have to introduce every teacher at every early years level to the child's ability to read?

[mrz]

"I'm not quite sure what the "overtake" description involves. But let's suppose (for my sake) that it involves some children being more able to decode than others..."

It means these children could fluently read anything put in front of them (we read The Lady of Shallott in the summer term) and not only could they understand what they read, they were continually scanning and skimming, referring back to what they had previously read when researching independently and as I said they were excellent spellers who while still in reception did the KS1 SAT spelling test (for fun) and achieved high marks.

[BooksandaCuppa]

As I said upthread the reason I wouldn't worry about one other person's anecdote at this point is that there are too many variables.

You cannot yet know how good the school is at differentiating.

You cannot know whether she's got a slightly truculent, difficult teacher now (or one just more focussed on play etc) and will have a fantastic one in year 1 and 2.

You actually cannot know how far ahead of the other children she is now, let alone whether any of them will catch her up: undoubtedly some will - you have been teaching your daughter to read for two years and they possibly have had only 9 weeks' reading tuition - they could all come on in leaps and bounds by the end of reception. Et cetera.

A good school will cater well for all. Some of these anecdotes we hear where they don't/won't/can't are either talking of really poor schools or genius children. Hopefully (with the utmost respect) you don't either one of those on your hands!

[mrz]

and yes the overtaken child probably could have read the children's encyclopaedia if they had wanted but he lacked many of the mature higher order skills the others had developed.

[learnandsay]

Yes, yellow. The school is trying to respond. The teacher has sent home some non decodable books which are an improvement. But she also said that she wants my daughter to return to the stinky scheme and hasn't suggested that it will be a lot further up the scheme, (quite the opposite.)

Can I ignore the school scheme books? Yes I can, and by and large we do ignore them. Can I teach my daughter other things? Yes and I do and I will.

Why is this a worry for me? Well, maybe it shouldn't be. But if my daughter is happily reading

Then Boudica marshalled her army and marched on Camelodunum

at home, and she's reading

Biff got mum's handbag and lost it on the train

at school, then I might be tempted to ask can my daughter not just read about Camelodunum at school? After all she's supposed to be learning at school. That's what she's there for. And if she can read about Camelodunum and learn about it then why not? There's not much to be learned about Biff's mum's handbag.

[yellowsubmarine53]

learnsay, in answer to your question 'does it get better in later years?'...with all due respect, your attitude and relationship with the school and your children's teachers will play a very, very large part in how 'difficult' or 'easy' things are....

Might I suggest that setting yourself up for a battle in term 1 of reception is not a particularly constructive start inmho.

[yellowsubmarine53]

From what you've said on other threads, your own grasp of phonics is pretty haphazard. I would expect the school to be teaching her these properly - this will help her spelling as well as reading as many posters have pointed out before.

[learnandsay]

I'm not someone who confuses phonics with reading. From what I've seen of my daughter's reading she uses a mixture of phonics, context, recognition/familiarity and doubtless more besides. My own view of phonics is that to a limited extent it's its own self regarding cottage industry. Of course it's helpful. Of course it makes perfect sense at a basic level. But does it explain everything there is to explain about the English language as it claims to? No, of course it doesn't. Is learning phonics a substitute for learning to read real books? No, of course it isn't. Can I read without knowing formal phonics? Well, obviously I can because I'm doing it. Can my daughters learn to read without knowing formal phonics? Well, obviously yes. Do I care any more than that about the self regarding cottage industry? No.

[yellowsubmarine53]

There was a long discussion involving several primary school teachers about the relationships between phonics and reading on another thread that you started.

If you send your child to a state primary, it will involve them teaching her phonics. That's what you've signed up for.

[learnandsay]

I'm not against her being taught phonics; I'm against me being taught phonics!!!

[MadameOneSword]

Il probably come across quite stupid here, but I don't get many of the ORT books as in how are they supposed to be decoded. My daughters school puts to much emphasis on them learning their sounds - her maisie mountain mountain chants drive me to distraction, then they send home books that's cant be decoded! For example this week we have naughty children....(the book not the household ) and there are very few decidable words, so wevend up telling the words, which I don't think helps!!

Please help!

[yellowsubmarine53]

In that case, let the school get on with their job, then. Honestly, you're making problems where there are not.

madame - I agree with your that it's not helpful sending home books that children can't read because they haven't been taught how to. This happens quite a lot, judging my the posts on here.

Could you ask the teacher for decodable books? And/or invest in Songbird Phonics which aren't that expensive (or go to the library for phonic books?

[SecretSquirrels]

When my DS1 started school in 2000 he was taught to read straight away. There was none of this playing throughout reception. Consequently he could read by the the end of the first term (he couldn't read before he started school).
DS2 was the same but shortly after that the whole teaching philosophy changed and they were not taught to read much before Y1.
The rewards are now being reaped with a whole cohort of children reaching secondary school at ever lower levels of literacy.

[BooksandaCuppa]

Are they?

[MadameOneSword]

I haven't seen songbird phonics yellow I'm going to look them up now, maybe a Christmas present!!
D
I've tried approaching the teacher and just got a whole loads of acronyms and long words thrown at me as to why He's right and im wrong. I'm aware that she's quite far behind in her reading compared to some other little geniuses in her class, but she's at the same level as a large group (about six others) she's finds it difficult and frustrating and I don't want to force her. But the school don't seem overly intent on helping out the issue! Dd2 is starting to learn phonics in nursery and picking them up quite fast, I'm assuming that's it's not a school problem but An individual one.

Unfortunately (as someone Said above) we didn't choose the state school....it was our only option!

[mrz]

SecretSquirrels the Foundation Stage curriculum was introduced in 2000 so not sure how your son missed it.

[yellowsubmarine53]

Madame I'm sure that someone else more knowledgeable than me can give you more examples of completely decodable books for new readers. My dd's school was quite good at using decodable books, and I remember Songbirds, Floppy's phonics though can't remember the rest.

[SecretSquirrels]

He missed it because he went to a tiny village school where the head, ahem, resisted the introduction for at least 2 years. My second DS was also taught traditionally but then a new head took over and in swept the dreaded ORT.

[mrz]

Where the head broke the law for a couple of year ...ORT is definitely nothing to do with EYFS

[maverick]

For the main publishers of decodable books do look here:

www.dyslexics.org.uk/decodable_books.htm

HTH

[mrz]

We use Songbirds, Phonics Bugs, Project X phonics Big Cat Phonics Rigby Star phonics, Rapid Phonics, Rag Tag Rhymes, (Floppy's Phonics and Alphablocks) and I have Dandelion and Sounds-Write books on my next book order.

[MadameOneSword]

Oh wow what a brill site! Thanks maverick, the dandelion ones look reasonable (and reasonably priced! Phew!) she's six now so holding her interest is getting a bit harder. It's interesting to see that there's a set of read write inc books on there....I'm sure this is the scheme they follow at school, so surely it would make sense for these to be the books they send home???? The mind boggles?!?

I (im 26) don't ever remember being taught to read this way, nor does dh (34) ..is this phonics storm a new thing or have we just blocked in out of our memories lol.

[mrz]

Phonics is the traditional way reading was taught in England for centuries then we imported Look & Say/Whole Words/Whole Language methods from the US and more recently schools have used mixed methods as prescribed in the literacy strategy.

[Cat98]

I know the thread has moved on a little from the op, but my experience has been different - ds started reception able to read a little (red band level perhaps?) and school identified it very quickly. They almost immediately started sending home books that challenged him, said that e had been helping other children learn sounds, differentiate work for him in class etc etc. he has already progressed really quickly (with support at home too of course) and is now bringing home books from green band I think though it's quite a mixture.
Maybe I'm too pushy but I don't think I'd be too happy if they didn't seem to be supporting individual children though like learnandsay says I'd probably just carry on doing my own thing at home.

[learnandsay]

Talk amongst yourselves. I got my answer from onesandwich upthread. She's been there.

[learnandsay]

Cat, I don't know if it's a mixture of don't support individuals, won't support, can't support, something else entirely, or what, to be honest. But as people have said, the best solution is to stop worrying about it and just do reading at home.