No teacher in reception class, just TA

[madhairgirl]

I was in m DS reception class this afternoon to listen to children read and they had no teacher just the TA from Y2 who isn't qualified. Is this standard if teacher has gone home ill? I think I just felt uncomfortable because she seemed to have little control over the class and little knowledge of their routines. At one stage all the children stood up and where looking out of the window and because they were pushing and shoving they managed to knock some shelving over. Just feel a bit concerned.

[Mummle]

Yep, that sounds right Helen!

[juniper904]

At one point, the government's plan was to have TAs in class all day, and one teacher to do the planning and assessments for the whole year group (but not actually meet the children...). Think £££ came into it somewhat. Weirdly, the unions weren't best pleased.

My mum's school also uses TAs to cover PPA. In my school, PPA is covered by teachers, although a HLTA does cover some of the KS1 PPA. I think it's unfair on her- it's a money saving initiative on the school's part. It's not for the sake of the children or her CPD.

[Hulababy]

HLTAs work under the guidance of teachers but do indeed plan and deliver lessons. It's under their guidelines that this is something they can do.

We've been through lots of stuff at work recently and the TA stuff is something that has been gone through in a lot of detail with many people from the schools, LEAs, Unions, HR and others.

[Hulababy]

I do agree though that HLTAs are often being used as cheap teachers and tbh in some schools HLTAs are doing the job of a teacher (planning, delivering, assessing, reporting, meetings, links with outside agencies, etc. ) but on a much lower wage. It's not right really at all. But many schools just won't pay for the additional teachers to cover the work.

[Highlander]

TAs cover PPA in our school.

[Riversidegirl]

mrz et al

Note the word 'guidance'.

[exoticfruits]

It is cheap labour and saves a lot by not getting a supply teacher. I think it wrong.

[mrz]

Riversidegirl also note the law

Qualified Teachers
Any infant class that has a majority of Reception, Year 1 or Year 2 pupils must be limited to a maximum of 30 pupils to one qualified teacher in all ordinary teaching sessions.

not guidance ... law

[mrz]

Definition of a ?school teacher? for infant class-size purposes

1. Schools will meet the infant class size requirements if an infant group of no more than 30 is taught by a ?school teacher?. School teachers include:
   

?
Head teachers
?
Qualified teachers
?
Overseas trained teachers
?
Instructors with special qualifications or experience
?
Staff on an employment-based teacher training scheme
?
Graduate teachers
?
Registered teachers
?
Student teachers
?
Teacher trainees yet to pass the skills tests

1. ?School teachers? do not include teaching assistants, higher level teaching assistants or other support staff. However, support staff may carry out ?specified work?, such as delivering lessons to pupils, within infant classes in certain circumstances1. In each case:

[MrsHeffley]

I think schools should have to publish who will be taking the class on each day each week and what their title is.

I think many parents would be a little if they knew the exact amount of time classes are left with TAs each week.

[cybbo]

I share a nursery session at my school, covering the 2 nursery teachers PPA time . I cover with a supply teacher, we are both doing the role of teacher as there are 39 children.

I'm an HLTA with lots of foundation stage experience, she is a supply teacher whose background is secondary. I get paid £10 an hour, she gets over £30.

[Hulababy]

mrz - legally TAs can cover PA and unplanned absence due to sickness (up to 3 days). That is for level 3 and 4 TAs, including Cover Supervisors and HLTAs.

It was official information we have just had over the last few months. We went through it all in a great deal of detail with people from the unions, HR, school staff and LEA and Government officials. It;s been quite a long process, but I know that it is the case that TAs can be used in this way legally.

[Grockle]

In my absence, I usually have a supply teacher. My TAs generally hate this since they end up running the class while a highly paid supply teacher stands there and doesn't know what to do. My TAs are brilliant at their jobs (none of them 'qualified') but very poorly paid. Makes me very cross.

[cybbo]

Makes me cross too

BUT I am doing my teacher training this year so will need a wheelbarrow for all the money I'm going to earn

arf

[Hulababy]

Been there before Grockle - the supply teacher basically doing the TA role, whilst the TA is taking the teacher's role. Yeah, a fair few times that happens.

[Hulababy]

lol cybbo :D

I was a teacher and I am choosing to be a TA now for a while, so tbf the low pay is my own choosing - in order to have a better home work life balance and more flexibility. But sometimes ......hmmm. I could (DH would say should!) be earning a fair bit more - but even on full teacher pay I am not sure I needed a wheelbarrow sadly. Well, if they paid me in coins perhaps.

[Riversidegirl]

I wasn't being mean mrz. I was just pointing out that when challenged on rules being changed in our school and telling senior management they're not being fair the word 'guidance' get's pointed out to us.

Sorry if I caused you offence

[Grockle]

Yep, cybbo - get that barrow ready

I have also worked as a TA (qualified teacher). Thankless task. I buy my TAs flowers/ chocolate/ biscuits and send thank you texts periodically. It doesn't compensate for the lack of money but I hope they know they are very much appreciated.

[mrz]

Schools get away with it because no one does challenge it. It's unfair to take advantage of TAs!

[hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman]

mrz-can I ask if that ruling applies to special schools too? I would imagine it does. What view would Ofsted take on finding out TAs regularly covered teaching colleagues in a reception and a year1-2 class?

[Hulababy]

But it is legal in infant classes. I work in Y1. We are only an infant school. And, as already said, all the official information says that this IS allowed.

Doesn't make it right and doesn't mean TAs are not being used as cheap teachers, but legally it is definitely allowed.

It is part of my level 3 job description in fact, and the planning, delivering, etc is in my HLTA contract.

[Hulababy]

And it was challenged at our school - over the past year and coming to a head in the last 3-6 months. And all the official documentation and rulings state it is legal.

[jamdonut]

I had a supply teacher in my class the other day, and it was pretty much me doing the job and me supervising her. Not that I wanted to,you understand, but she just wasn't very good and kept looking to me to sort stuff out! I hate that people get so sniffy about the capabilities of TA's . It has also been challenged in our school about who can do PPA , but the Local Authority say that teams of 2-3 level 1 or 2 TA's are able to cover. HLTA courses are not taking place in our area any more, so we cannot do it even though I would like to. I work term-time only, +5 days, and all our contracts are for 27 and a half hours,( even though we all work much more than this). For this , I take home a little under £9,000 a year.

[LeeCoakley]

You can gain a level 3 TA qualification now without ever working in a school. Just a couple of hours a week volunteering. I feel the qualification is completely downgraded and I'm sure parents would be even less happy knowing that someone could be covering sickness and delivering lessons with absolutely no past experience under their belt! Hopefully schools would not let new TAs be in this position but you never know.

[Hulababy]

Last HLTA course in our area has also now taken place and no more will be available. Last one finished in January time round here.

We were told that Level 1 and 2 weren't allowed to be supervising on their own. No idea about in teams. Our discussions only involved Level 3 TAs so really only went into detail from that point up.