When do schools 'stretch' more able children?

[Feelingsensitive]

Possibly going to be flamed but this is a genuine question. DD is in reception and according to her teacher and previous nursery is 'very able'. She is basically reading/writing/doing maths about a year ahead. She is my first born so I am new to this. At parents evening the teacher said she didnt want to start sending reading books home until after Xmas when they all start learning to read as then she will have loads of requests from other parents to do the same. I can see where she is coming from and am happy to just read at home using library books. The only thing is it sounds to me that DD is not having anything tailored to her abilities. Now I am not suggesting she should be sent home with 'War and Peace' and it could be that her abilities are not even that remarkeable or they all even out at the end of the year. However, this is the second time I have been told she is working about a year ahead of her age group. Should I be asking the school for her to be pushed a bit more or does that come later? Common sense would suggest it shoud come later as they are all still so young and she loves school so I want it to stay that way. I have friends who are teachers but I dont want to ask in case I come across as a prat. Any advice would be appreciated. As long its not too much about me being a PFB pushy mother

[LadyFnarFnar]

Dd and a couple of other children were sent to year 1 for maths/literacy when in reception. This seems like an easy way to stretch the more able. At dd's school early years(morning and afternoon nursery) are taught in the same space as reception, when she was in nursery apparently she would go and sit with the reception children for literacy.

She's in year 2 now and afaik doesn't go to other classes, presumably the teacher can differentiate within the class room. They have also in ks2 started streaming(maths and literacy) for ability rather than class/age. So able year 3 children may be taught with struggling year 5 children etc. Which I think is a really good idea.

[tjandpootle]

I haven't had time to read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating somebody.

I was classed as very advanced when small - extremely keen to learn to read - and taught myself at 3. By the time I started at the local primary I was reading fluently anything I could get my hands on. I spent the next 3 years treading water bored stiff while everyone else caught up. I even remember most days the teacher asked half the class to line up in front of her, the other in front of me to do flashcards. I was being used as a TA at the age of 5

Needless to say everyone did catch up in the end and I'm no genius now

This was 30 years ago and I'd like to think things have changed now and my experience of both state and private primaries would suggest this. However it does look like each school differs. I agree with other posts about it being more than reading, writing and maths and if your DC is happy and not bored then I wouldn't worry. But if he/she is like I was, they are hungry for the kind of knowledge that comes with more traditional academic learning and could get bored. Just keep an eye.

[piscesmoon]

I thought after I wrote it that it was probably a bit glib-sorry-you can't move mountains on your own-well done for trying. It is so sad that any DC has to put up with it-they shouldn't.

[Elibean]

waterloo and at the same time, hats off to you for getting involved and trying so hard to change things whilst looking after your dd so well. I wish more people had your attitude. Really hope things continue to improve for your dd at school.

FWIW, I think dd's state primary does a very good job of stretching able children in some classes, certainly in KS1 - but it does depend a bit on the year, the teacher, how stable that year is in various ways etc. Not a lot of bored children - that I can see or know of, anyway.

[waterlooroadisadocumentary]

We do log events , we have become parents governers, active in school and DH is often in school. It is my dd's local school there is no other option unless we pay which I do not want to do. Lots of parents have moved away but I think the school will get worse if every parent who is interested and supportive leaves.

I think and hope we have stopped the bullying but she is still not learning in school which is why we have to teach her.

[lljkk]

My quite "able" children seems to be served well by the local state school (academically, at least). Very average school in most respects.
Am I deluded? Am I merely lucky? Should I be pushing the children harder to achieve more and therefore disatisfied with anything less than achieving their highest potential? These threads leave me so about how can people's experiences vary so much.

And if they were stretched to their maximum.. well then what? GCSEs at age 11? OU degree by 17? Why should I want DC to grow up that fast? .

[FreudianSlimmery]

I really feel for those of you whose children aren't being stretched. And it really does depend on the school. It's a travesty really that it seems to be such a lottery.

Eg my school (was there early 90s as I'm only 23) was utterly fab. I read a book to the class on my first day in yrR, and straight away was allowed to miss phonics sessions, my teacher brought her DD's books in for me. Good differentiation continued throughout primary, I remember exhausting the spelling lists and was instead asked to write a newspaper as homework. I was treated brilliantly, I was no Einstein but I stayed ahead and most importantly I loved school and being challenged.

OTOH.
The primary all 3 of my stepchildren went to (all left now) was awful for differentiation. DSS and DSD1 gifted (admittedly only within the cohort, very low achieving school) and DSD2 (girls are twins) dyslexic and struggling. All 3 let down IMO. All forced to be average.

[Goingspare]

And the 'again' refers to that thread as well.

Keep in close and friendly touch with your daughter's teachers and work with her interests at home. My experience is of a primary school where reading books were introduced in the nursery (my 3 year-old DD2 was baffled by her wordless books) and reading was pushed hard, in spite of the otherwise play-based environment. DD1 had, on the other hand, attended a private nursery school where early reading wasn't pushed, and her reception teacher was a little about her lack of skills at first (September born, otherwise apparently quite able). DD1 got the hang of reading all in a rush when she was ready, and whizzed through the reading scheme by the end of year 1.

DD2 (May born) went through a phase of thinking she couldn't be very clever because she didn't have words in her book (at 3-4!), and was a little slower to get going than her sister, but launched herself off the middle branches of the ORT into Harry Potter in year 2 and taught herself to read on that, reading nothing else for nearly a year. Year 2 teacher let her give up the ORT once she was on HP4, though I would have been prepared to accept that a little variety wouldn't have gone amiss.

I think my older girl had the happier early experience of reading, i.e. not rushing, and I don't think my younger one was the only child whose confidence was a bit knocked back early on because she knew other children could read actual words. Our school has a reputation for being good for the average and above, but not so strong with the less able, but I think the head who was there when my two were little was on a genuine mission to get all children reading by the end of KS1, and it has, by and large, worked pretty well.

As long as your daughter is happy, and you have no reason to assume she won't be able to fulfil her potential as she goes up the school, I'd just carry on as you are for now.

[piscesmoon]

I thought it referred to the other thread as Feelingsensitive asked for advice and listened to it.

[Goingspare]

The 'not responding' referred to the OP on the other thread, not to you, I think, Feelingsensitive.

[domesticsluttery]

That sounds like the best idea feelingsensitive

As for being a genuis {grin] I like this quote by Albert Einstein:

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

[Feelingsensitive]

No I am still here. Byblyofyle - Could you direct me to the post you wish me to respond to as I can't see any from you on this thread. Not sure what the 'again' is about as I had already responded to the first few posts. I've just been busy with RL.

Thanks again for those who have posted. I don't share the view that the teachers do the bare minimum but thats because I have had such a good experience from our primary school and nursery system so far. Seems to me that the system is a bit hit and miss for some. As I said before I will just wait and see. DD appears to be bright now but who knows whether this will continue as it could just be her development is a little ahead in the things we measure rather than those that we are less aware of. Whilst I would like to think DD is a genius it's more important that she is happy and enjoying school which she is. I think we have to see how this year at school goes and what happens next. In the meantime I will keep getting books from the library and getting her to read them as and when.

[Byblyofyle]

OP disappeared? (again)

[piscesmoon]

' but she sits in a classroom watching children around her riot, avoiding the odd thrown chair, worrying when she is next going to be hit and wondering who will be teaching her today.'

This is unacceptable! Can't you move her? I would be logging incidents and phoning, or going in daily, no DC should have to suffer this! Make waves if you can't move her.
My DS was once in a maths class like that and they eventually made a video recording to show parents, who wouldn't believe that their 'little darlings' could act like that!
He did succeeed in getting decent maths lessons in the end.

[domesticsluttery]

waterloo your DD's school sounds awful, as Feenie said why can't you move her?

[domesticsluttery]

ShoshanaBlue well done your DD!

[Feenie]

Or most others!

Bloody hell, waterloo - why can't you move her?

[ShoshanaBlue]

In our school, we bring home reading books from the summer term in Nursery. My DD has SEN, was getting individual help (not on a statement though) and Nursery teacher discovered DD could actually read (we didn't know).

She is in Y1 with same teacher and is doing really well (still SEN though) - we also get 10 spellings per week (I think spellings may be differentiated though).

I'm chuffed to bits about the reading because it's one thing that my DD can be good at. Being special needs means that you can miss out on a lot of the good things in life, but at least she can have something she can actually feel proud about.

In reality, our school is quite laid back in its approach to reading than a lot of others in our area (others read more but have daft policies about having to read every single word of every single book on reading scheme for example) - very mix and match approach with various schemes but all at appropriate reading level for DD.

I thought most schools were like my little girls but from reading here it seems like a lot of children miss out the nursery year and start in reception. Our Foundation Unit was entirely play based (Reception and Nursery were mixed a lot of the time) and yet they were still able to do reading, I don't see why being in the Foundation Stage means that you can't read when it's not been a problem in our school.

[SkyBluePearl]

Reception is play based but at the same parents and children at my school were allowed free access to Biff and chip reading scheme books. Lot's of bright eager kids wanting to learn and they blossomed.

[waterlooroadisadocumentary]

I am still waiting and my dd is in year 4. I have to spend my day teaching my own students and then come home and teach my own dd as she is being failed so miserably at school. My husband has cut down his hours at work so he can help as I was finding it exhasuting and he can work with dd straight from school rather than her having to wait for me to get home.

We don't live through our child and we are not pushy but she sits in a classroom watching children around her riot, avoiding the odd thrown chair, worrying when she is next going to be hit and wondering who will be teaching her today. My dd is a bright sparky girl who would have lost her love of learning if we had not intervened.

As a teacher I do stretch able pupils and object to earlycomputers saying I cater only to less able students.

[Cortina]

Talkinpeace, interesting re: Richard Feynman. What a great, sensible father.

[Clayhead]

domesticsluttery, my dc's school sounds similar to yours and I also have a ds who's a fab reader but could not learn to ride a bike without stabilisers for what seemed like forever...

Both dc have had loads of help with extending their knowledge in areas which they enjoy/are good at. Every teacher they've had has done their best to keep stretching them (8 teachers in total so far).

They also spend loads of time making friends and painting/playing sport/being Playground friends/going to school council meetings.

Also run of the mill state primary in a very average area.

[Talkinpeace]

Richard Feynman memorably said that his father knew that school would never, ever be able to "stretch" him upwards. They were to stretch him s-i-d-e-w-a-y-s
music, arts, sport, socialising, sharing, understanding the abilities and needs of others.
Richard was never moved up a year at school, even when he was academically years ahead of everybody (even many of his teachers)
He turned into a balanced individual with a hunger for learning all subjects (and a Nobel Prize)
not a bad role model IMHO

[spanieleyes]

As I've got them again this year ( I teach 5/6) I now have to try to get them up to level 7. Have you seen the curriculum for level 7!!!!!! We now have algebra sessions at lunchtime

[faileddoctor]

[It now becomes clear to me why I'm called faileddoctor, it's because I wasn't streched enogh in reception. In fact I didn't learn to read till I was 6y (on the continent)]