I just don’t know how to help my 12 year old DD

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

I’ll try to keep it as short as possible, but apologising in advance if it’s too long.
DD 12 started secondary school in September, she was bullied (trio of girls, always tricky 🙄) last 3 years of primary. We were communicating with school and keeping it under control but she was so sad and desperate all the time. So, secondary started and she found few girls to hang out with but is so sassy and rude at home. To make it clear, l work with children, so have always set boundaries and there are expectations, rewards and consequences. Husband and l mostly on the same page.
When l call her out for being rude, she starts crying and getting upset, saying she’s always the one in her friendship avoiding getting in trouble, and the other girls are not impressed, she’s worried about loosing them…she talks about ditching classes, not doing as told by teachers, taking her phone out while on break just because they feel like it, what would l do if she skipped class or had a detention, wandering if she should see school psychologist 😫 (her closest friend now, does) and l think she is just trying to fit in, but l am so worried, history is repeating itself, she is falling in with the bad crowd… Children from primary and secondary all come from problematic or broken homes (l’m not saying all children from broken homes are problematic! But these girls surly seem so, social services involved, ditching classes in year 7…language they use, plans they make) l am just trying to figure out what to do, will the school psychologist help or is she doing it to bond, how do l get through to her when she’s so sassy and should l keep her away from new friends, but then she’ll be alone… please, any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated 🙏
(that is one long post for keeping it short 🙈 but didn’t want to drip feed)

[ExplodingSmittens]

I'll be honest, I haven't got much experience of the DC getting into the wrong crowd but I wondered if The Teen Survival Guide might help your DD?

[Weedoormatnomore]

Not sounding good if your DD is bringing the attitude home! Seems to be the in thing for kids to skive classes a number of kids did it in yr7 in my DD school. They where ones you would never even guess from good homes etc just wanting to be popular.

[secondfavouritesocks]

seems like she needs an opportunity to make different friends - what sort of extracurricular clubs are on offer? It would be ideal if there was something she could attend where she would get to know others in her year in a different setting. music? sport? academic clubs? You could ask the school about this - I would contact the pastoral support and discuss

[Singleandproud]

She doesn't need a school psychologist she needs a chance to make friends with girls outside of school.

It's not unusual for girls to experiment with different friendship groups in year 7 so hopefully this will be a short lived phase. However it is not uncommon for them to copy what their friends do either and I've known this in the extreme where perfectly healthy girls with stable homes have started to SH or made-up stories of abuse at home to fit in with their traumatized friends who have experienced similar things.

Talk to the school pastoral team, it won't be the first time they have dealt with this and get her some friendship support. She needs to get involved with the after school programme of extra curricular to make friends in sport, music etc which will carry over to the classroom. Ask her to be kept separate in seating plans from the girls she doesn't need to know this, remove her phone when she has misbehaved at school etc. if it's carrying on at home check her WhatsApp it's likely she can't escape them even at home so the attitude stays instead of her relaxing in her safe space.

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

Thank you for your thoughts. It really is a battle to get her into any of the clubs, she doesn’t even want to try and it causes huge meltdowns to the point where she’ll get a migraine and vomit then sleep in a dark room for few hours (she is not a great sleeper, so when she says she’s in pain and fall asleep during the day, l know for sure she’s not faking it)
she has one outside of school club which she’s been doing for couple of years, and wants to quit every time we go (it’s a great club, her sister attends but at the different time) managed to get her to sign up for one in school which she loves…she hates sports so not much choice left, she doesn’t really like anything but superficial stuff 😔 which is so hard to watch…

[Secondaryschoolstress]

Would a new school help. A fresh start. Brand new opportunities to make friends with a better fit of friends. No expectations.

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@Singleandproud l do take her phone away, l check it regularly as well, it seems all ok in the chats… unlike the ones from her primary school. It’s just very hard to meet people outside of the school as she refuses to join clubs. We live in a big city, she’s too young to hang around on her own or even with friends after school, area we live in is not very diverse at all and quite a bit of crime happening, our friends live all over the city and we don’t get to meet up often, and their children are different ages to ours so not much chance of developing deeper friendship at the moment, in few years the age gap will disappear… it just seems she’s so desperate to make new friends and leave the bullying behind her, but is drawn to problematic girls and because she knows it won’t go down well with us if she’s problematic in school, she’s frustrated she can’t join friends in skipping classes etc, and they are already calling her out on it. I’m worried isolating her from few girls she just met will cause even more problems

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@Secondaryschoolstress she only just started this one in September, our area is not diverse at all so this school was as diverse as it was going to get 🙄
No, no option of leaving at all, and we can’t afford private school for them…

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@Secondaryschoolstress the start of secondary school was supposed to be our fresh start 😔

[Weedoormatnomore]

Sounds like maybe you should contact the school psychologist after all. A child in year 7 having meltdowns that result in a migraine and vomiting. You keep calling the other girls problematic however your daughter is also playing up.
My DD made herself friendless as she did not want to hang around with a certain crowd due to not wanting to get into trouble. Taken a while but finally she made knew friends. Where as you DD came home asking what would happen if she did get into trouble at school sounds like she was weighing up her options.

[ComeTalkToMe]

I feel your pain about this age and friendship difficulties. My DD (almost 12) has also got a new group of friends since starting high school, as she had a lot of issues at the end of primary - and I have heard some less than ideal things. She doesn't like to get into trouble at school so I don't think will join the skipping classes etc, but we have had poor attitude at home. I'm hoping just by continuing as we always have - boundaries, support for difficulties and listening - she will get through this.

I think it is a very difficult time for them, I'm also telling her to invite them round as I do want to know her friends rather than assuming the worst of them. I think sometimes things can seem worse when you don't know the children involved.

[Jewelspun]

Take the phone away would be a massive help. No social media for starters. She's 12.

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@Jewelspun That was my thinking as well, but they were the last kids in their primary to start gaming, and l only gave in when it was clear they were more and more isolated as they friends had gaming topics that they had no clue about… the same goes for the phone, l take it away as a consequence, but how on earth are they supposed to communicate with their friends, living in a dangerous city, not allowed to stay in parks/streets after school as they are still too young… it was much easier for us, we grew up playing on the streets with our friends, our great great grandmothers grew up there, everyone looked out for each other, even just to get you in trouble if not out of the goodness of their hearts… now everything is transient in big cities, no one stays, everyone moves away eventually, not many people care… what are kids supposed to do? I did babysit them as much as l could, in parks and at home in primary school, but l can only do as much and they are little but grown up and don’t want me sitting on the bench just so they can hang out… the only thing that’s left is face timing their friends from the safety of their homes…And there’s no nasty messages or cyber bullying (yet) more of nudging to misbehave in school and skip classes

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@ComeTalkToMe my other daughter is like your DD, and l totally agree, but this DD of mine kind of finds it awesome to play dumb and pretty, to my utter distress, and is so desperate to try and fit in she’ll do anything, but she also knows me and that that will not go down well at all so she’s just torn, and it’s so hard to watch and love with 😔

[Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky]

My DD is Y8 now. She had some challenges in Y7, she changed friend groups quite often and one of her friends in particular had a difficult background and a lot of stuff going on. She also had a pair of friends out of school that I think she had an up and down relationship with. There seemed to be an element of picking up behaviour from them and wanting to be like them.

During this time she would get very upset and was also very argumentative at home and with her sister, lashing out at her.

Since about 6/7 months ago both these friendships have drifted and there is a huge change in her - she is much happier, spends more time with the rest of the family and gets on with her sister better.

Although I wasn't happy with the friendships she had trying to discuss them would make her very defensive so I think you need to cross fingers and try and ride it out and hope the friendships naturally move on.

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@Weedoormatnomore no l am not blaming only the other girls, l just know it’s definitely not her idea as she knows what the consequences would be, so she’s running it by me to feel out how l feel about it (l can tell you no sympathy from my side for nonsense in school and ignoring the rules) at home it’s always a bit more flexible as they need the safe place/people to express their emotions although l might add l do not have unlimited patience for crap. Yes, she is a bit of a drama queen as well, but each to their own. Migraines were diagnosed for both her and her sister at the age of about 8/9 when their puberty started, they are brought on by hormones and stress, they don’t make themselves vomit - it comes on if the headache is too severe and medication was not given in time to lessen the pain, my girls are totally different but have the same symptoms and react in the same way, so this is not psychological but physical condition brought on by stress and hormones, l don’t suffer from this but my sister (far away from us so they can’t mimic her) suffers from migraines and has the same pattern of symptoms. They don’t mimic me, l’m never sick 😔

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

@Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky
l am so glad your DD came through it and made it to the other side…
what was happening to your daughter sounds exactly like what’s happening to mine, but my DD is sooooo desperate to fit in, have friends and be happy after the sh** she went through in primary school, l am very worried she’ll persist just to have someone, but l pray she’ll find other friends, it has only been few months really… l do try to be understanding but will not stand for nonsense, she doesn't need to be the best but has to try and do her best, and at the moment she’s mor impressed with the worst of the worst 😫

[Weedoormatnomore]

@TheDarkSideOfTheMoon are these girls in her form tutor group ? could you look at getting her moved to another form. I just read you mentioning DD had meltdowns and then would have migraines and be sick that's hard if its hormone and stress related.

[Mothership6]

How are things with your daughter now? Mine is 12, in year 7 and exactly the same. She won’t attend any of the clubs she used to, won’t go to her swimming lessons and is just generally rude and defiant. All of her “friends” are on report and I’m sick of her acting like it’s a good thing. Ugh.

[lorisparkle]

I found the book 'how to talk so your teens will listen and listen so teens will talk' really useful.

Ds2 was getting into lots of minor trouble - mainly so he could impress his 'friends'. It is a fine balance between setting clear boundaries and keeping the lines of communication going.