"Find a more appropriate setting"?

[TinyTeachr]

My DTwins are coming up to 3 and a half. They have recently started at an independent preschool (feeds into a primary) 2 days a week.

I was asked to come in for a meeting with the preschool teacher to discuss how thry had settled in. When I arrived, it was with the teacher, the EYFS lead, the SENCO and the headmaster.... They had a clipboard with notes they had made while observing my boys.

Phrases like "unable to meet their needs" and "perhaps find an alternative setting" were being bandied about. I have agreed to pick them up at lunchtime (currently on maternity leave so can do so) as I felt that really the issue came down to the fact that they still seem to desperately need a nap, which they can't have at preschool.

My boys do seem young for their age in terms of their behaviour and independence - they are still quite prone to tantrums/meltdowns when they are either hungry or tired, potty training has not been at all easy and they have no desire to be independent with regards to dressing/shoes. I was hoping that starting preschooland seeing their peers do these things would be good for them, but didn't think more than 2 days a week would be good for them because they struggle so much without a nap.

What would "an alternative setting" be for children that are preschool age but seem a little behind in some areas? I wasn't keen on the local nurseries - my eldest was very unhappy until she started preschool and I think my boys wouldn't benefit from being put with younger children.

How do you find an appropriate setting if your child seems a little behind in some areas?

It's is possible there is some SEN at play here. Eldest has ADD/ASD (although would have been referred to as "high functioning" before thatbecame an impolite thing tosay). The boys are bright in some ways a.g. they can read without needing to sound out words most of the time, they can do some basic maths. But ask them to put their own trousers on and they may just say it's too difficult and sit down and get tearful. It's that sort of thing that I think the preschool are finding hard to handle, they expect some level of independence.

[Octavia64]

Well, there are SEN preschools and nurseries - if you have a diagnosis you may be able to access those.

Do you need full days for work? Otherwise the obvious solution seems to be for them to do 4 mornings rather than 2 days.

[NewName24]

If you are in the UK, then all educational provision for 3 year olds, whatever they choose to call themselves, should be following the same curriculum. That doesn't matter if they are a school nursery, a private, independent or voluntary setting, a day Nursery, a Nursery attached to a school or a pack away playgroup.

So all Nurseries should be differentiating and making appropriate provision for if your child seems a little behind in some areas.
I presume the staff were talking about "alternative" to mean "anywhere that isn't here" rather than "specialist provision".

In our LA, there aren't specialist Nurseries. Every Nursery works to support children who have additional needs.
What your dcs' Nursery should be doing is writing a plan to show what they are doing over and above what they do for all children, to support the needs of your dc, not excluding them.

You can go on to the Local Offer for your Area and find out which team supports early years provision and tell them what you have told us.

[TinyTeachr]

@Octavia64 they don't have a diagnosis. The SENCO says she thinks it is like based on the observation she made of them, and I'm drawing comparisons with eldest. I'm not sure they'd be considered for a specialist setting - I assume they have quite a high demand and my DTwins I wouldn't say have very great need. Honestly I thought they'd cope in mainstream as long as a tool time to settle in gradually.

I don't need full days until September as I am on maternity leave. I was trying to do gradual settling by stating on the minimum. At the moment they will be doing two mornings as the school says they can't cope with the full day. 4 mornings is not an option - the school doesn't officially allow half days, so I'm collecting them at lunch but still have to pay the full day. I can't afford to pay 4 days for both of them while I'm on maternity leave.

@NewName24 yes,UK. It did feel a bit "anywhere but here" but I wondered if there must be some places that are more appropriate than others. I wouldn't dare ask about support as they said they vouldnt meet their needs. Basically I thinkif I push it at all we' ll be given notice, so I wouldn't want to do that withoutsome idea of an alternative so I could get them settled before September.

[Weakmocha]

Can you try sending them mornings only, but more frequently than twice a week? That was they get more used to the routine, but still get their nap.

Have they been in childcare before? It must be tricky to fit in immediately, especially if most of the other kids have been in nursery since 1 so are very used to the routine.

[Fast800]

Sounds like the current schools is telling you they don’t want them and won’t be accepting them to reception.

When is their birthdays? Will they be starting school this September? Have you applied for schools?

If they have summer birthdays I would be looking for a school who would take them into reception in September 2025. What is your local state school like? Does it have an attached nursery?

[TinyTeachr]

@Weakmocha I'm afraid that's not an option. The school dkesnt officially offer half days so I am paying for 2 full days but collecting them at lunchtime. I can't afford 4 days while I'm on maternity leave. They haven't attented nursery, this is their first setting. The school knew that would be the case - my eldest is in Y2 and I've often had the boys with me on school run and taken them to school events. I was very honest about not being sure They were ready before they started because of the nap.

@Fast800 sadly I think you're right. They wouldn't be in reception till Sept 25 anyway, they have another year of preschool after this one. I just don't know What is the "right" setting for them Id this isn't. My eldest was very unhappy at nursery but has always been happy and supported at this school. The local state schools don't have attached nurseries. They also don't have aany wrap around care, which would be an issue for us in the long term.

[Fast800]

In which case I think they’re suggesting they would be better in childcare until September for ‘early socialisation’ and then a local state school nursery in September. If you suspect SEN they I would start looking for a good state school now for advice.

[Fast800]

Maybe ask the school if you should withdraw until September 2024 when they’re old and see what they say.

[Shinyandnew1]

Are there any other preschools that just do mornings?

Is it worth having a chat with your HV re SEN and see what they advise?

[shockeditellyou]

Is this a private nursery attached to a private school? They are saying they don’t want your children because they are too much work, and risk making their lives hard as they have to accommodate children who haven’t turned up at 3 reading and writing.

[SparkyBlue]

OP I have a DC with asd and I'd say personally that this preschool doesn't want them and I'd look around for a more inclusive setting. It will constantly be one thing after another and you will end up completely stressed which you don't need especially with a new baby to also look after and the last thing you'll need on your return to work is constant phone calls. I know this unfortunately from experience.

[TinyTeachr]

@SparkyBlue @shockeditellyou I think you are right that they maybe just don't want them as it might be extra work for them. I assumed that a preschool would be able to manage that level of difference. I dont think of them as much outside the normal range, and they aren't naughty (caveat: most of the time. They are 3...).

@Shinyandnew1 there are some other preschool but they have long waiting lists so aren't useful to me. They don't have any spaces anticipated for September. I guess I'll have to look further afield. I also will need full days September onwards as I'm back at work. Who would have thought a child lking to read could be an issue!

@Fast800 out local state primary doesn't do well with SEN sadly. Quite a few bullying issues. That's why we went independent with our eldest in the first place - she is lovely, but is noticeably "different" e.g. she stims during imaginative play, hums repeated phrases (a LOT if not reminded) and umconnectedly she has poor hearing. This school has been wonderful with her for 5 years, so I was really surprised they seem so unwelcoming to my boys.

[donothing]

@shockeditellyou

Is this a private nursery attached to a private school? They are saying they don’t want your children because they are too much work, and risk making their lives hard as they have to accommodate children who haven’t turned up at 3 reading and writing.

It's grim isn't it? Children being judged at that age- it's verging on abhorrent

[PlumFish]

I'm an early years childcare provider. The level of need you have described is not so high - it should be possible to accomodation it within a mainstream early years setting. That is the SENDCO's job surely? I would ask them for the information and observations they have made, so that you can see how high the level of need appears to the preschool staff. If your children are behaving differently in this new environment they should be given time to settle and adapt. If it continues then perhaps they will need more support and you may choose another setting as this one doesn't sound very welcoming- it's good to have the information to pass on if so, and also for school/possible diagnosis if you find that's needed.

The lack of desire to be independent - I have seen this a few times. The following may not apply to you though, and no criticism intended - it is most people as a parent at times. Often a child knows that things will be done for them (by loving family who want to make their life easy and struggle free, or parents who have very little time as they need to get to work/look after siblings too etc). The child makes a small show of trying to put on their shoes etc, then say it's too difficult or wanders off, and it's done for them because actually people need to get to school and work on time. They lose the motivation to do it themselves, and they can't see that success is the other side of the struggle.

It can take a few standoffs and a bit of time, but with consistent expectations from caregivers that a child will eg put on their own shoes, the child usually gets there, and is really proud of their achievement. The caregiver having this expectation also shows the child that they are trusted and capable. But the standoffs are difficult in daily life, and I think a childcare provider can really help with this, as they will have consistent expectations of all the children, and routines.

[TinyTeachr]

@PlumFish very diplomatically phrased 😋. There is an element of that - I try not to step in too early, but have caved a few times when under time pressure and they also know ifthey go to daddy he will do it for them. I was hoping at preschool there would be a little bitof peer pressure to help things along....

[PlumFish]

If both parents decide to take the same stance it will hopefully help, and IMO preschool should work alongside you with this. When they start to be frustrated acknowledge but don't step in immediately. "Yes zips are difficult sometimes. I can see you're trying really hard". Let them (and you) experience and come through the difficult feelings of frustration so they can build their resilience. Of course they are only little and it's lovely to do little things to help them. I still zip up my child's jacket when they ask- it's a little routine each morning. But we both know they can do it themselves at school. I think having twins makes this a lot harder though - if you didn't help them more then you might be in half the day. Maybe now they are a bit older they can find these skills are satisfying to them, as their reading is. This is just what I've found helpful in work.