Alcohol and Anxiety - Please help me :(

[Louise990]

First of all I should mention that I suffer with severe anxiety and OCD - I'm currently having CBT but I'm just not coping.

I'm 35 weeks pregnant and I've got worked myself up into such a state.

I haven't touched a single drop of alcohol during my pregnancy and would never in a million years dream of doing so - I love my baby way too much..

Last night I was sat on the sofa with my boyfriend and I turned to him and kissed him on the lips. It completely slipped my mind that he was drinking a can of beer and the moment I felt that his lips were cold and moist I completely froze and had the biggest panic attack.

I wiped my lips with my sleeve straight away and then got a baby wipe and scrubbed them. I didn't taste any alcohol but feeling the cold and wetness from his lips was enough to send my OCD out of control.

I appreciate any replies but please don't try and make me feel better by saying a drop of alcohol in pregnancy is not harmful - this is irrelevant to me. There is no excuse whatsoever to drink any form of alcohol in pregnancy in my opinion and knowing that other women have sips or even the odd glass of wine/can of beer when pregnant doesn't comfort me.

I feel like I've ruined my pregnancy and can't cope knowing that I've managed to avoid it for 35 weeks and now I've gone and done this.

Please help me.

[temporaryusername]

Oh Louise, huge huge (gentle) hugs for you

OCD is a bastard, I know it too well.

You recognise that your problem is one of worry - you have said as much. You know that no alcohol was ingested and that even if you drank it would not harm the baby. You don't believe your baby has been harmed. So really you are recognising that the content of this ever shifting obsessions is irrelevant.

Now, if the problem was actually one of germs, it would be right to take precautions to avoid germs. But if the problem is one of excessive worry about germs then those precautions would make the problem worse - setting ever higher unnecessary standards you can't meet and making you ever more hyper-vigilant. The same for bumps. The same for avoiding alcohol.

You know for every precaution or ritual we attach importance to, we're set up for more distress when we can't reach unrealistic standards.

Actually kissing your DP on the lips when he has drunk beer would have made a good deliberate exposure. It was not a mistake at all - I am afraid that is example of well meaning relatives not having a clue what to say or do. They give every response they can think of to try and help, including nonsensical unhelpful ones.

All this time you have avoided alcohol has reinforced the idea that it is dangerous, your brain thinks it must have risky because you made such an effort to avoid it. If you went and took a sip of beer now, and again tomorrow, and the next day...eventually your brain would go the opposite way and think 'oh, this can't be dangerous because we're doing it willingly'. Unfortunately the fear part of our brain doesn't seem to be able to filter out the illogical by thinking, it takes action. I can't do it yet! But I will keep trying.

Keep telling the medical staff everything - they won't take your baby away. You need to tell them so that every bit of support you can access is put in place. I think medication will help with this but it may take a while to kick in. I think you would be fine to take it at this stage, but I understand that might not take it till the birth. You're so nearly there. It will all be ok, I promise you it will.

Your DH should really read some books on OCD and know the enemy as soon as possible.

I know none of what I have said will help. I have this disease too. But we have to keep trying. I just want you to know that I understand and am sending you lots of virtual love. If there is anything I can do or say to help, let me know.

[Louise990]

My baby is perfectly fine and healthy, kicking away as usual - this isn't my concern as squizita said.

I know it's difficult to understand what my actual worry is unless you understand how anxiety/OCD works (I appreciate this) but this is purely a mental worry rather than a physical worry.

By the way, despite the mental agony I'm going through at the moment - I would rather experience this a million times over than there actually be something wrong with the baby (God forbid).

I can't understand why this is such an issue for me because I know I didn't ingest ANY alcohol. I suppose I feel like a failure and like people around me are secretly thinking that I've ruined everything because of what I did. I feel like when I kissed my boyfriend that his reaction must have been something like 'I can't believe she's kissing me when she's pregnant and I'm drinking alcohol' - like I was careless and stupid for doing something like that with a baby inside of me.

I know that must sound crazy..

[temporaryusername]

Louise, it's not crazy. It is a result of having been obsessed with the idea that you must not drink, and acting on that. Your mind is shocked by any kind of 'infraction' because it has learned that that is 'forbidden'.

I know you didn't exactly say this, but remember there is no link between your mental agony and there not being anything wrong with your baby. OCD behaviours can't protect a baby any more than standard reasonable precautions, so actually your OCD has done nothing to help your baby. Just as things the OCD sees as 'mistakes' have done nothing to harm the baby. Whether you take excessive or normal precautions, the vast majority of things remain out of our control.

[squizita]

The idea that everyone secretly thinks you're incapable is another nasty little symptom. Impossible to ignore, but I find it helpful again to tell myself yes I am thinking that, but it is a symptom. Not the truth.
How eager is everyone to offer opinions on pregnancy? Very in my experience. If they did think it, it wouldn't be "secret" at all! Its another way the mind controls itself to stay anxious.

[PacificDogwood]

Louise, big hugs - you must be exhausted thinking and feeling like this.

Totally understandable that alcohol would end up being a particular trigger for you - nothing you say sounds 'crazy', but just really hard work.

Listen to what temporaryusername and squizita are saying; they are all too right.

to you all.

[Louise990]

Thank you for your replies.

I see my OCD as a bully - the more I give into it, the more it takes advantage. If I was strong enough to ignore it and fight it then it would back off but the cruel nature of the disorder means that it blurs reality and makes me feel like there's some truth in whatever I'm anxious about at the time. For example with this situation I'm still not convinced that nothing bad happened. I'm trying to see that it was just a kiss and that the only way it involved alcohol was because my boyfriend was drinking a can of lager at the time and NOT because I had any involvement with the alcohol myself.

Tonight he's drinking a can of lager for the first time since the 'incident' which makes me feel a bit uneasy but it's the best way forward - if he stopped drinking in front of me now then I would end up developing an even bigger phobia of it and my therapist advises me to expose myself to whatever makes me anxious. I purposely went near him earlier and got close enough to be able to smell it on his breath. I even let him kiss me on the cheek. It was absolutely awful and made me feel incredibly anxious but hopefully exposure therapy will help in the long-run. I can see that being close to him when he's drinking is not harmful to me or the baby. I hope soon that I will be able to see that a peck on the lips is OK too.

[sunnyrosegarden]

OCD is a complete bastard!

I have suffered, fairly silently, since childhood. Strangely, it stopped when I was at my absolute lowest, when I lost my dad, as I realised that no matter how many rituals I broke, it wasn't going to save him.

My DH also suffers, far more noisily . CBT did help him, and he is much better these days. With him, half the battle is getting him to realise when he is a loop.

So, you know that it is your OCD talking? You haven't actually caused any harm or ruined your pregnancy. It is "just" your OCD.

[gamerchick]

The stress hormone that is being inflicted on your baby is doing a dammed sight more damage than a smudge of alcohol will ever do.

You need to get a handle on this.. Please go and speak to somebody. Nobody is going to take your baby anywhere but you need some real support for your problem.

[Louise990]

Yeah I know that it's my OCD but at the same time I find myself doubting whether there is some truth to my worry or whether it purely is the disorder doing the talking. It really is awful.

I've had it since childhood too and like you, mine went away when I lost my mum but has returned with a vengeance now I'm pregnant! I just hope this obsession with the drinking fades soon cos I'm not sure how much more guilt I can take.

[PacificDogwood]

Sorry, no, stress/anxiety will not harm the baby, but a frazzled, hyper-anxious mum can.
So, addressing this anxiety now (which I know you are working hard at doing) is for your benefit and by extension the baby's. When it's born.

[temporaryusername]

Well done Louise, keep going with the exposures. I know it is hard, but it's going to be worth it. The fact you felt so anxious and still did it means it will have really done some good! I know these things that might seem small to others are so scary, so I'm really impressed . Hopefully they will give you confidence and soon lead on to bigger things.

It is all too tempting to reassure you that you didn't ingest any alcohol or knowingly go near any - that is all true, but it isn't the way to go. The way to go is to focus on it not mattering - you could have shared the beer, and it would have been ok. Even if you had been anxious, it would have been ok - you'll ride it out.

Don't beat yourself up for struggling - pregnancy is such a difficult time psychologically for so many people, and you are without any meds to help you.

[squizita]

Gamer I am saying this because suffering from anxiety (part of which involved mental health/'your stress will harm people' being a trigger as I have been heavily gaslighted in the past) I have done a lot of research and asked a lot of specialists, and I don't want others to be triggered
The level at which stress hormones have any impact are massive: actually, weirdly, bigger than a functioning person with clinical anxiety. They do not hurt babies. Even pregnant women with MH needs are not hurting their babies.
Harm can be done when women become anxious about anxiety and spiral madly - this then carries over into behaviour after the baby is born which is where the predominant risk lies.

So yes, MH issues during pregnancy MUST always be addressed: but for the woman's sake during pregnancy and the family's after.
The 'snap out of it you're hurting your baby' argument can seriously backfire.
Self-medicating hurts pregnancies.
Self harm or under/over eating or poor hygiene hurts pregnancies.
These can come of MH issues.
However, bar delaying labour if that is a trigger and making it painful, having clinical anxiety per say won't hurt the baby ... unless/until it affects their childhood.
Which is why it MUST be dealt with - as well as the fact we as women are human beings and deserve to feel OK!

[sunnyrosegarden]

I'm really trying to think what helps us - acknowledging it's the OCD talking is the main thing.

Exercise seems to help me, even just walking outside. Gardening. Anything that slows down time and distracts me - making a cup of tea using a stove top kettle and waiting for it to boil. Anything that slows down your breathing and gives you perspective.

DH needs to be properly distracted. Walking outside helps him too.

And of course the pregnancy has triggered it. All those hormones and unknown fears.

[gamerchick]

Actually the stress hormone has been shown to produce jittery babies..

And underlined suffering from anxiety myself which is medicated notknowingwhyitssomesortofcompetition underlined that another person's anxiety affects everybody around them and should be dealt with. Not wanting to speak out because of xyandz is daft and just adds to the mindset people have for mental illness. Nobody can help unless you speak put.

[PacificDogwood]

Actually the stress hormone has been shown to produce jittery babies.
I'd be interested in that study if you'd have it to hand, gamerchick?

[temporaryusername]

I know that it's my OCD but at the same time I find myself doubting whether there is some truth to my worry or whether it purely is the disorder doing the talking.

That is really well put Louise. When it comes to fighting back there is that voice saying it 'could be real, don't take the risk'. I don't know what we can do to make that leap of faith happen and just take the risk.

I do think that it might be helpful to focus on what will definitely happen if we don't take the risk. Most of the things we fear have a small chance of happening (except for feeling anxious, which will happen, but which will go down if we don't respond). These tiny chances seem intolerable, and we focus on them.

I know we're tuning out the real risk, the one that is almost a certainty.

Those of us who have had ocd for a long time know that there is no middle way for us - unless we resist it will take over. So if we don't take the leap of faith and take risks, it is almost 100% that ocd will destroy our lives. Try to think of how wonderful it would be to commit to sparing your baby that, to be able to do all the normal things with her without limitations. If anything is worth going through the pain of exposures it is giving that little new life a chance to live without ocd in her world, surely? Remember if you don't take what you perceive as risks, it will affect her, and you and your DH.

It's not our fault we have to fight this horrible battle. We just have to rise to it though.

[Louise990]

gamerchick if you truly understood anxiety then there is no way that you would type something like that on a thread like this - do you not think that I already feel guilty enough for how my anxiety might be affecting the baby on top of everything else? I have CBT every week, my midwife and GP are aware of how bad my anxiety is AND I speak openly about how I feel to others hence why this thread exists. I'm doing everything I possibly can to fight this but thank you for easing my conscience by saying that I'm damaging my baby.

[squizita]

No one is talking about not speaking out. Both myself and Pacific said it was right to speak out and seek help. We have both repeatedly said this. For OP's own sake and for the sake of her child when it is born.

I was talking about comments of the ilk of "stress hormones will harm baby" being a common trigger with perenatal specific MH flare ups. Indeed, as yes it is vital to remove the stigma attached to mental health and ensure people do actively engage with healthcare, I would propose any idea than unnamed 'stress hormones' are inherently dangerous and if you have a medical condition which means you have them, you are in some way poisoning your baby, might be more likely to push sufferers 'underground' or get them into a spiral of denial.

Was the research into the jittery babies is the trial involving young mums in trailer parks in tornado alley in the USA, who had been affected by storms already then essentially still had to live there in constant sheer terror whilst pregnant? The issue with it is that it is a very specific situation, very very high stress and several socioeconomic factors couldn't be firmly ruled out. Furthermore as the stress was still there when the babies were born, nurture was hard to rule out.

Just to clarify: (1) the reason I pointed out my history was not a 'competition' but to clarify that such comments can cause deep worry because I have been there and that I wasn't just someone saying 'aww it'll be OK' on the internet or wishful thinking.

(2) the reason why it is a trigger for me is NOT that I am unaware anxiety can impact on other people. I don't think I can just act as I wish. "Your stress and MH will hurt others" triggers me because in childhood, when I pointed out a relative with obsessive behaviours wasn't acting like other grown ups, they would threaten to take me to a psychiatrist and have me 'locked up' because I was stressing them out and upsetting the family (who enabled their self-medication and denial to seek help). I therefore find "your stress inherently hurts others" incredibly triggering: but have found out this is not at all uncommon. This was later used by a partner to emotionally blackmail and manipulate me for several years (i.e. keep quiet you crazy woman it's just your anxiety).

But as I said - NO ONE has told the OP not to seek help or cover up her anxiety.
All pacific (from her post) and I were concerned about was the statement vaguely linking 'stress hormones' and damaged babies... which is triggering and debatable.

I campaign with Mind and TTC. I go to CBT regularly.
I do these things knowing my anxiety won't harm my baby in the uterus. It could harm my child growing up if unmanaged though.

[PacificDogwood]

Women have healthy babies all over the world under the most adverse of circumstances - I am not suggesting that famine, war, terror, no access to clean water or the most basic of hygiene measures is a good thing or to be strived for, but lets remember what an amazing and resilient thing a healthy pregnancy is.
It is interesting that 2 of you have said your OCD was better when you had to deal with bereavement in your lives: it is as if the totally-out-of-proportion anxiety had to take the back seat to a very real disaster.
Could you use that help control your anxiety now?

[sunnyrosegarden]

Pacific - it was a real eye opener for me. I remember walking across the carpark to work, was going to check my car was locked, and it just hit ne that it didn't actually matter if it wasn't. Dad was going to die anyway. I spent a whole year completely OCD free.

It only comes back now if I have no real worries. I am better if nicely busy.

[Louise990]

temporaryusername Pacific and squizita thank you for your replies, your words are really helpful (thanks to others too).

I hope that the exposure therapy will work. Earlier on when my boyfriend opened the first can of beer I felt a huge knot of anxiety in my chest and every time he took a sip it made me feel awful. The second time it wasn't so bad and I made myself watch him take the sips. It sounds awful but it's been a struggle not to resent him because if he hadn't been drinking that night then none of this would have happened, but at the same time I'm grateful that the reality of my worry is really non-existent and poses no risk whatsoever to my baby. It could be so much worse.

When I made the decision to purposely go near him so that I could smell it on his breath and to let him kiss me on the cheek, afterwards I regretted it and started thinking that I'd made it all worse and just added to the anxiety. But now I'm quite proud that I managed to do it otherwise my OCD would have won.

It's like I have a false memory of what happened. When I look back and feel anxious I remember a wet, sloppy, beer-smelling kiss, but when I look back and think rationally I remember a normal kiss on the lips that did feel cold and slightly wet but there was absolutely no smell to it. I've kissed him since and realised that he does have wet lips even when he hasn't been drinking so chances are that it was saliva with a hint of beer - doesn't that sound delightful? Regardless of what was on his lips, as soon as the kiss happened I wiped my lips immediately anyway so there is no chance that even 1% of alcohol went into my mouth.

The only thing my anxiety can latch onto is that it happened. It would absolutely love to be able to point out the dangers of what happened but fortunately there aren't any. It tried clinging onto the notion that I no longer had a 100% alcohol free pregnancy but I'm sure kissing someone who was drinking a can of beer does NOT count as me drinking or even taking a sip of a drink.

Apologies for ranting, I got carried away!

[Louise990]

sunny I agree that OCD tends to be at it's worst when I have no 'real' worries. With me it seems to come and torture me when everything is running smoothly and I should just be able to relax and take things easy. I guarantee that if an actual problem came up tomorrow (I hope to God it doesn't) then my OCD would take a hike.

[squizita]

Yep I become the 'go to' calm person in a real crisis. It's like my brain goes "well, it's happened now. It's all messed up. Therefore I have nothing left to worry about". At work I often end up being given the tough stuff to fix because of this... my boss marvels at how I'm worse off mental health wise when all seems plodding along nicely!

If things are uncertain or vague then I feel awful. But not if they're actually bad. Weird.

[Roseblossom2]

I'm not quite sure how you expect any response to what you wrote? I was blind drunk in my 4th and 5th week of pregnancy without any idea I was pregnant... those things happen.

Irrelevant of that. I'm going to be frank. You need to see a mental health professional and discuss this with them. You wrote at the end of your post that you don't want reassurance that it won't harm your baby, and you know you are being unreasonable, you can't really expect your partner to understand something like that or know how to comfort you.

Seek professional help so that this paranoia and anxiety is not having an effect on the baby once born.

I'm being blunt because you said you would never do anything harmful to your baby like drink alchohol. And with a history of depression in my family and myself, I know, in the best interests of my baby that I talk to mental help professionals at this important time in mine and babies life, to keep everything on track and make sure I'm at my best to be responsible for a little life relying on me. :)

[sunnyrosegarden]

How are you feeling today, Louise?