Vitamin K injection for newborn?

[moomin35]

I assume this is recommended by the NHS for a reason. Anyone doing it or not doing it and what are your reasons?

[CrispyFB]

That's very interesting, thanks both of you! I found the link and gave it a read.

It makes sense - hadn't considered the whole protein aspect, and it is good to hear the size of the dose means it is far less of an issue.

[PenguinsEatSpinach]

Crispy - It might be worth having a look back on here as well for what Tiktok has said about virgin gut. Not that she's particularly big on it IIRC, but I think she's given an explanation in the past about it being to do with the fact that medicines don't have a protein component.

It is possible that my memory is entirely and utterly wrong though, so don't rely on me and I apologise if I am mis-quoting!

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

crispy the alpha parent has a good explanation of this - Google 'alpha parent virgin gut' but iirc medicines and oral vaccines are administered in such small quantities that they are assumed not to disrupt the virgin gut.

[CrispyFB]

Just out of interest, as somebody who is passionate about breastfeeding and anxious to maintain the virgin gut, how do oral vit K drops feature into that? I'm never sure about oral medicines in any shape or form pre six months although it goes without saying if they're necessary (like antibiotics, paracetamol etc for fevers) they're necessary. I am not that far gone!

It's partly why I opted for the injection over the drops though.

[addictedtosugar]

Does anybody have access to any scientific papers with reasons for babies being low in vit K?
Is it a design flaw within mother nature? I was under the impression an in-utero baby was a bit like a parasite, and would take what it wants from the mother, so why doesn't baby take / keep more vit K - after all mother has plenty, and iirc, its fat soluble, so can be stored.

fwiw, DS1, ventous delivery got a vit k injection. DS2, paramedic emergency (fast labour) delivery on the bathroom floor didn't. I'm not sure it was offered?? I was in a bit of a daze! I do remember the discussion about if they could offer an assisted 3rd stage or not in a non emergancy situation.

[Roseandmabelshouse]

They only use vit k for resuscitation to stimulate the baby. A needle in the leg sometimes wakes them up, like a good tap on the foot does. It's not the actual drug that aids resus.

It's only given with prior consent mind.

[RalphRecklessCardew]

Oh it's perfectly possible that the advice will turn out to be wrong. However, the people who issued it did so after training for years, passing a bunch of exams, writing peer-reviewed papers, etc... I'm always puzzled when people counter that by saying they'll 'do their own research'. It's a bit like me overruling a structural engineer because I'd googled a bit about how buildings stay up.

[eurochick]

I'm not wading in to the vit k debate as I haven't made my own mind up yet, but I will say that NHS recommendations change quite frequently (e.g. son't eat peanuts/peanuts are fine) so I will do my own research to figure out what is best for me rather than blindly follow advice.

[HelenHen]

Lol Ralph, have a and get over yourself!

G

[ChicaMomma]

RalphReckless- dont assume the NHS will always do the best for you, cash strapped or not- i know it's 50 yrs ago, but ask any of the mothers who took Thalidomide around that time- widely approved for use by the NHS. I'm not for one second saying there is any likelihood WHATSOVER that VitK would have a similar reaction to thalidomide, and i accept it's a lame comparison... but my point is, dont blindly trust what the NHS advise and dont advise. That said, if you're happy with it then great- it's everybodies own responsibility to do what they feel best by their baby.

It's the quantity that is supplied (in one go!) in the injection that i would have an issue with. Hence while i'll choose the drops.

[RalphRecklessCardew]

Ok. This isn't working. I hope someone else manages to get through to you.

[HelenHen]

Excuse me? I'm not the person who named that website and I never said I even looked at it. In fact I never named any of my sources of information so, either you're psychic or you're still being patronising to say I don't know how to do research!

And people say there's no bullying when it comes to stuff like this. You know nothing about me and yet you're making all kinds of judgements based on... Absolutely nothing but your own sense of intellectual superiority!

By all means continue to provide what you consider to be accurate information for those who want it. And I will continue to make my own decisions based on my own knowledge and/or instinct... As we all should do!

[snoggle]

Mine both had the injection and DC3 will do.
Small but definitely provable risk of HDN is clearly larger than not-provable or substantiated risk of administering vit K.

Neither of mine bothered by injection, and having had to give oral ABs to a newborn, IMO forcing stuff other than a nipple into a bf baby's mouth is more distressing than a quick jab.

[RalphRecklessCardew]

Well, thinking that the NHS would inject millions of children unnecessarily with a potentially dangerous substance is pretty much up there as conspiracy theories go.

Look - I get that this is making you angry and I get that some of us here sound patronising. I am (genuinely) sorry about that, but I think we're worried that you're over-estimating your ability to assess the evidence. That doesn't mean you are stupid, far from it, just that right now you don't have the skill set to distinguish between dodgy websites and proper evidence.

[HelenHen]

Lol Ralph not really but thanks for putting words in my mouth!

Political corruption is hardly a conspiracy theory by any means

And yes, I would make decisions for my dcs based on some conspiracy theories (sarcastic). Are you really that insecure about your own choices that you put others down who choose differently? That's incredibly sad!

I've said before that I respect the choices and decisions of others! We'll done for doing the same (more sarcasm)

[immortalwife]

Why not do it? Its for their health benefit, and our dd didn't even notice. Birth is more stressful than a little injection tbh.

[Patchouli]

Both mine had the jab.
I thought the drops sounded a pain in the arse and a bit hit and miss.

Iykwim about not wanting to give a newborn any added discomfort to a day already scary and difficult for them. But really, my DCs didn't seem too concerned about the injection.
As someone else has said: that heel prick was worse.

[SimLondon]

I wasn't really aware of this and asked the two midwives and doctors in the room what the hospital policy was, they didn't really know but said that generally it's recommended to have the injection. My GP subsequently said that when he was in charge of resusitating newborns on a labour ward that the vitamin K being quite a powerful injection was often a way for him to get newborns to respond.

Food for thought - I had it for DD but wouldnt rule out the drops.

[RalphRecklessCardew]

Ah. I'm afraid mine was something of a trick question. I was waiting to see if there were conspiracy theories behind your views. Looks like I was right.

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

DD had the injection at a few hours old whilst feeding and didn't even notice. Having seen how distressed she was by the oral Rotarix vaccine I am very glad that we didn't put her through the distress of multiple oral vit k doses. You may not like the idea of needles near your newborn but it was absolutely the right choice for us.

[HelenHen]

I don't really wanna play it any way. I've made my decision, you make yours as you see fit! And theres never any corruption in politics eh?

[RalphRecklessCardew]

HelenHen,

Ok. Let's play it this way. If it's not useful then why is the cash-strapped, overburdened NHS doing it?

[HelenHen]

Evertonmint thanks for your concern but I certainly did not take this decision lightly. I spent days upon days researching it and weeks and months thinking about it. I asked dh to do his own research on the topic and we then discussed it extensively! Please don't patronize and presume people don't understand just because they take a different side to you. This was almost two years ago so I can't remember what sources but they were probably all the ones you use and more. I was following this thread to see if anybody could give anything that has come up since I dud my research and I haven't seen anything. If there was something convincing I would certainly take that on board.

I do not make these decisions lightly for me or my kids and how dare anyone suggest otherwise just to back up their own argument!

Seriously, I'll leave ya to it!

[evertonmint]

HelenHen - with respect, if you are making the decision not to give Vitamin K to your children against medical advice, then you really need to make sure you carefully choose only appropriate sources to make that decision. That means peer-reviewed papers detailing the results from trials with proper protocols and statistical analyses, like Dino has posted. It does not mean relying on any old website that gives you a view different to the official guidance. If you don't review the data critically and just take it all at face value, you run a huge risk of making the wrong decision for your children. Saying "You could say that about most sources on either side" suggests you really don't understand how to assess the varying quality and validity of the arguments being made. I don't know all the sources you have researched, so I can't say you have made the wrong decision as you may have found some decent sources (in which case, please share them), but I do know that all sources are not equal as your last statement seems to suggest.

[PenguinsEatSpinach]

Regardless of your views on vitamin K (both mine had the jab), I don't think anyone should be taking advice from that Mercola site. After a quick read he looks like an utterly unreliable source. He's not even a medical doctor - he's an osteopathic doctor and nutritionist . Reminds me of that Ben Goldacre joke - picture of a rubber duck with 'nutritionist' underneath. And some of his view are, well, interesting.