OMG

[Tea1Sugar]

I just got a mirror to inspect my lady garden and. my fanny looks like a yeti.

Desperately desperately need a wax. Anyone else been ignoring their "upkeep"?! I'll book one for Tuesday at 31 weeks and hopefully that'll last me until another one at 38 weeks before elcs.

Poor poor dp :-(

[TeaAndANatter]

Hi Tea, I remember you from another thread we used to be on - If I remember rightly, we're due about 1 day apart? Hope pregnancy is going well - mine's less anxious than it was at the start after my MMC.

ME: Radical feminist, non-waxer, pro-personal-choice, but highly anti-social pressure put on women to wax, but considering it as a one-off prior to this birth as my lochia the last two times was narsty, and I'd like to not be wiping as many chunks out of my poor bush. So, on the whole, it kills me to even consider this (because for me, my bush IS political as well as personal), but I may visit the emporium of pain and hot wax just this once.

[ziggletttwiglett]

And showy just one last thing... why is this terms in which we speak of our bits and cleanliness a big deal.to you? The op never mentioned anything about being unclean.. and I dont think many do.

Vaginas smell thats life
Bottom holes smell thats life

In a very close space to your vagina you wee and poo and bleed and have disharge and sperm ive never worried about being unclean and no one in my life ever has insinuated that you are dirtier for not shaving..

so arguments/discussion asside where have you got this idea/notion? I am genuinely intrigued/interested. Not belittling you. I really want to know.

[ziggletttwiglett]

Actually im not you are. I was simply describing it as hairy. Say what you will you have twisted my words. I dont believe at all that performing oral on an unshaven vagina is dirty and i havent insinuated that either.

That is what you and I suspect others are choosing to read.
Clearly I can not get my point across without people "taking it for the worst" rather than simply reading all of my comments you have focused on areas where you will find fault even though as I have already pointed out was not offencely written in any way shape or form and simply my creative way of describing an act. Which if you had focused more on my efforts to let people be themselves then we wouldn't be having this disagreement I'm sure. As I think said by us both we clearly have similar views that people are individuals and should be allowed to be so.

I think ive had enough of this now anyway I'm sure many will agree with me and many won't.

I have to say though that after my many attempts to reaasure you about the carpet comment you still choose to disbelieve me and bash me for "saying hairy women are dirty" which I have NEVER said and I will try one last time to get that point across. I said

dog sleeps on carpet - in my experience this is the hariest part of my carpet and with my experience of pubic hair getting stuck in horrible places in my mouth Iwould imagine this is what it would be like.

I did not say:
dog sleeps on carpet - in my experience this is the dirtiest girmiest part of my carpet so I would imagine that an unshaved vagina would be just as unsanitary. .

And I actually belive that pubic hair is there to keep you cleaner internally anyway but the is no getting away from the fact (not that ive mentioned it previously) that hair does give something for "bits" to stick to such as faeces discharge etc. Although (now make sure you read this) I dont believe that being hairy makes you dirty/dirtier on a normal hygienic person...

[SaucyJack]

Is it better if we phrase it in those terms?

What would've been better is if you left well alone in the first place, instead of spoiling the OP's thread for your own intellectual masturbation...........

[Showy]

Tea1Sugar, can I just apologise if you feel got at? You are very pregnant and don't deserve to feel that way. Does it help to know that people on here- including me -are at worst trying to stress that you shouldn't even give the notion of 'poor dh' headspace? You're doing a marvellous, wonderful thing and I bet he thinks you are pretty smashing right now. He's also right. Is it better if we phrase it in those terms?

Trying and failing to get access to your nethers in late pregnancy is like a lesson in how an upended turtle feels. I was given a bic razor before the spinal for my emcs and told to remove any hair above a certain point. May as well have asked me to cartwheel into the operating theatre.

[SomethingOnce]

Mumsnet never ceases to enlighten me.

[Showy]

I don't think anybody isn't calm tbh. People are having a discussion, not running round screaming.

[Tea1Sugar]

Mumsnet never ceases to amaze me. Some people need to calm the hell down. We are talking about PUBES ffs!!

[Showy]

Zigglett, please don't swear at me. Somewhere a dog sleeps is dirt-ridden. What I'm trying to highlight (as I have repeated time and again) is that the language we use to talk about pubic grooming seeps into the consciousness. There's a particular obsession with cleanliness and when you compare it to the bit of carpet a dog sleeps on, you feed into that. I'm not twisting your words, I'm trying to show you how something natural can be described in such a way for it become something disgusting. Licking the floor where a dog sleeps IS unhygienic. Performing an oral act on a woman who hasn't removed pubic hair IS NOT. And what you've actually done is dismiss other people's choices. Denigrating their choices does not advance your own. I am sorry if you thought I was putting words in your mouth. I had no intention of doing that. Everybody should do what they want to do. You can't accuse people of not respecting your choice and in the same breath, criticise theirs.

[SomethingOnce]

Nobody has said that it isn't, or that you shouldn't.

[swampusdonkus]

I don't wax for how it looks, I wax because it heightens sensitivity and sensation in my fanjo. I don't need to remove everything to achieve this but certainly trimming, waxing or shaving the underneath bit makes a big difference, particularly to oral. Surely if such hair removal heightens my sexual enjoyment it is something to embrace?

[ILoveDHIDo]

Agree with IdaClair and also, aren't I going through enough for my 'poor' DH for him to even be concerned about the state of my fanjo?

[ziggletttwiglett]

Effing ridiculous at the lengths some.people will go to to take offence to inncocent post.

Poor op comes to.mind.

[ziggletttwiglett]

Showy I must apologise. The only section of my last post aimed at you was that kids will be kids etc I aimed nothing else at you so I apologise if you readnit that way.

but with regards to germ ridden dog carpet.. go back untwist words and bloody apologise! not once did I mention dirt ridden. Just the fact that it would be likenthat because of the amount of hair... maybe i should have used hairdressers floor as an example.

[hubbahubster]

I'm actually at how daft this thread has got.

OP, your original post made me chortle. I know I shouldn't be surprised by how much comment it's generated, since I use mumsnet quite a lot, but I really am.

[Showy]

I did try to explain the difference between personal choice and public pressure in my post but obviously failed. Please re-read the bit where I said it doesn't matter what people do if it's a free choice. How do you know I don't wax? Or groom? I said nothing about what I do and I criticised no woman for making her own personal decisions. What I talked about was an insidious attitude towards pubic hair which- whether you want to admit it or not- can be damaging. It isn't the most damaging thing or the problem in its entirety. But it is a problem.


But you know what, go on accusing me of being anti-waxing or grooming. I might be completely hair-free. It doesn't matter about my personal choice or anybody else's personal choice. What matters is the myths and stereotypes we perpetuate through adding value judgements to our choices. However, if you're happier comparing pubic hair to germ-ridden dog carpet and somehow thinking that's a salient point, then go ahead. How funny and lighthearted.

[ziggletttwiglett]

Haha thats ridiculous.

What is so wrong with personal choice?

my child will be given masses of encouragement to be comfortable with their own thoughts and choices the same way I have.

You im afraid are the wrong one here. Have you readnmy post about cornflakes in my oh beard?? Because its the same damn thing personal sodding choice!

Im not the one sat here saying shaving is wrong or rightor trying to influence others to join me on my anti hair raid because im not.

I will not however be told by you that my post is wrong. PERSONALLY I dont like licking my partners pubes because the hairs gets stuck in my teeth and down the back of my throat does it worry me the my partnernwould have to go through the same thing with me? Yes because it makes it much less enjoyable thats our choice as a couple.

did I just last week go swimming when I hadnt shaved for 3 weeks and have mynpubes hanging out? Yes I did did I care? No! Im comfortable with me and I will try my damn hardest tonmake sure my children are the same.

it is not MY fault so many are uncomfortable with their own choices.and with regards to showys posts kids are kids and even adults are adults that life unfortunately. And if you really think posting on here about how porn and media has ruined self image is going to make a difference let me tell you its not. We all know its there every day in every way and we can't stop it.

all we can do is try our hardest to teach our children to belive in themselves even if it does take untill adult hood for them to get there. Its just unfortunate that there will be so many people including yourself willing to knock their opinions down.

I will lose no sleep over this but unfortunately others will question why someone has bashed their opinion.

[HumphreyCobbler]

read showy's excellent post, she said it much better than I could

and your post makes me think FFS. You have not managed to change my response by your later post, in fact you have consolidated it.

[ziggletttwiglett]

humphrey you have got my post very wrong. That is MY personal opinion! That is what I believe my oh feels when I don't keep on top of my lady garden... there are plenty of men and women who don't have that opinion and love hair down there.. go on a porn site there is normally a category for "hairy"

my total point is that it doesn't matter whether you do or dont like it its your choice!!! If MY opinion of it being like
A hairy carpet gets to you then maybe you should shave itnoff! If on the other hand you are comfortable with you own opinion and are not wavered by OTHERS OR THE MEDIA then you would NOT have taken offence by my post.....

so dont ffs me for believing in my own choices. YOU are making it sound like personal choice should be changed because of what others think... I am happy with my decisions and own thoughts.

[McFox]

Love it livingzuid, thank you :)

zigglettwiglett - I feel the same way about reciprocating when things ain't tidy in DH's world :)

Rejoice grown ups of the world that we are free to do as we wish with our pubes!

[HumphreyCobbler]

if your post is to be believed zigglett then we all have to do it in order to avoid being like a rancid dog carpet. ffs.

you are proving exactly the opposite point to that you wish to make

[ziggletttwiglett]

Just too add surely this is no different to a man shaving
His beard??? My OH has long stubble which I find very sexy some women prefer baby bottom smooth... I would sure as hell be a bit put off if he had a never ending growing flop of haor growing. And sharing my kisses with this morning cornflakes..... other women will find men with long beards attractive there is nothing wrong with any of these opinions!

PERSONAL CHOICE!!!!!!!

[HumphreyCobbler]

unbelievable

[SomethingOnce]

can I ask have any of you ever "gone down" on a woman with a hairy muff? I personally haven't but I can imagineit would be something like licking that bit of carpet by the window where the dog lays...

And there you go.

Oh dear.

[HumphreyCobbler]

bloody hell