FEB 2010 Three is a magic number, yes it is......

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

Come and take shelter from the DC here, folks!

[SurvivalOfTheUnfittest]

IC can I be honest? As a teacher, and a mum who has had to use childcare, I think DD's responses are not particularly unusual for a child who has not been away from you much before (and not repeatedly, routinely). I get what you are saying about her health suffering and and you and DH being stressed too, but I'd be tempted to stick it out a bit longer if you can. After all, I'm assuming that she will go to school in 18 months (unless you are intending to home educate?) and it might feel strange for her to have gone somewhere fun with the grown-up children for a couple of weeks but then not be able to go anymore. Have you thought about how you would explain it to her if you decide to stop the sessions? In my experience, children who have been to pre-school for some sessions before starting school find the transition into school much easier than those who have not. Obviously, you've got plenty of time to try again if necessary and she will change dramatically in 18 months anyway (and you know best, as SC says). Just wanted to give you a slightly different view from a less involved party. Hope that's okay and that she will settle, whatever you decide. I know how stressful it is when they are not settled and I feel for you all.

Will try to come back to reply to the rest of you tomorrow at a more appropriate hour.

[ClimbingPenguin]

I used to take DD after her naps, but then found she did a lot better having her nap there. Woke up and was OK at the situation. Meant initially having to keep her awake. Hopefully you can speak with the nursery and they can help you to come up with some other ideas to try.

[SocietyClowns]

Our LOs are starting school in 18 months!!!

[ScienceRocks]

IC, I think I'm with Survival on the nursery situation and would be inclined it give it a bit longer. While she may well be struggling to settle at nursery (and initial enthusiasm followed by reluctance is quite common, as the novelty wears off and the reality that this is the new routine kicks in), there may be something simpler at play - for example, how is her diet and fluid intake at nursery? The busyness of the setting, coupled with shyness about eating and drinking in front of people she doesn't know, may not be helping the constipation. My two both went through phases of coming home from nursery really thirsty and it was because they were just too caught up in playing to drink. Once I spoke to them (and the nursery), it quickly got better. I think it is worth exploring.

CP, how is the asthma? Was it you who was asking about doing stuff in London? I have done stuff on my own with both DCs but am always careful to plan it out, so I know that stations are accessible (if I have a pushchair) and that I know exactly where I am heading, both in terms of travelling and eating. I find getting about with both of them takes all my attention, so I have to have everything else already in my head so I don't need to look anything up If you do decide to do a London trip, let me know as I may be able to meet you.

SB, Soc's method for mattress sleeping is the one we use (even for beds to ensure they don't get untucked or fall out). Did you have a good birthday?

DD2 had a great birthday, thanks for all the wishes. We went to Chessington to see the animals during the day, then had some friends and family over for tea and cake in the afternoon, before having family dinner (chicken teriyaki with sticky rice at her request). Then the next day we met my brother and his family for lunch (Japanese again!), and on Monday she had a little party at nursery (i sent in a cake, some party food and little presents for the kids). Now I am writing thank you cards!

How is everyone else?

[ScienceRocks]

Soc, meant to say that I'm so pleased your DD2 is loving pre-school. My DD2 will be starting at hers (where I am parent governor already) in September, but has her first taste next week when she goes to the holiday play scheme there for a day with her sister. She is super-excited

I am much less worried about the actual getting into school for DD2 than I was for DD1 as she will get a sibling place, and, again, she is already excited about the thought of going to school with her sister that I think she will be fine.

[ScienceRocks]

Can't remember who said their DC was obsessed with jigsaws! DD2 is too - has done seven already this morning and can do 50 pieces on her own All while singing and chatting, of course

[ClimbingPenguin]

I don't think the stations that I get into London are accessible so I am dithering over London, plus it's an hour train. I think I'll try it with DH first.

Asthma is better. I cam down with a cold on Saturday so the being short of breath lasted from Thursday night until Monday in the end which was a bit pants.

DS now spends his time climbing onto the table. I am hoping that DD is coming down with a cold otherwise her awkward behaviour over the last two days is just for no reason.

[LeMousquetaireAnonyme]

IC I agree with sotu and SR, she hasn't been in long enough to say it isn't working.
She might need a more structure day than Montessori provides too?
DD1 needed (still) strict rules (routine) so she could follow and be aware of everything that happens. She still has crying sessions or gets very stressed if something changes.
One of DD2's friend was the same as DD1 and her mum made a drawn schedule for her to follow at nursery a few months ago. (i.e. take off clothes, go to play room, play, snack, story time.... mum coming back). It took a while for her to settle but she is fine now.

For the toilets it takes a while for the kids to know the rules and who to ask, DD2 had a lot of accident at the beginning because she didn't know how to ask or who (she would say "pipi" and wait for something to happen even if no adult where within earshot).

Also for anxiety I recommend that book www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Worry-Much/dp/1591473144?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21, for you to find some tricks to help her. DD1 (stubborn!) reads it on her own, but it is supposed to be a tool for the parents to help their children. I know your DD is too small for it, but some things can be adapt to her age and understanding.

Finally are all ages mixed? If so, can she have an older helper? DD1 used to do that at nursery (because she loves it). She would take care of the youngest and show the rules and what to do.... until they were comfortable.

Ultimately if you are all stressed about it may be stop for a while and try in a few months (september) in a different setting, may be?
I hope it gets better soon.
Good luck.

[SocietyClowns]

SR The penny just dropped... This is the reason dd2 had such an astonishing week last week, because it's her sister's school!! She would normally start in September, too, but if they have space they allow 'early birds' providing the child is ready.

[ClimbingPenguin]

DD descended into a mess so had to post before I had the chance to say Science sounds like it was a lovely day and impressed at the puzzles. DD can do them but likes to do them together plus with DS she doesn't have unlimited access to them. It's on the shelf of things we do when DS is asleep and she isn't.

So what are you suggestions of things to do in London?

sb hope your birthday is good, you too soc there are a lot of adult birthdays this week. Found out I am not tutoring on mine so trying to think of something to do. Seems getting a few mums together for a drink at this short notice is a step too far.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

Thanks for all your thoughts!

DD is back to her old self today - did a big poo without too much drama (she's back in nappies Mous - she herself has lost interest in using the potty and toilet for the time being and until the withholding becomes less of an issue, there's not much point in us pushing it.....Science DD is on a Movicol regime, so lack of food/fluid at nursery wouldn't cause her constipation to get worse as we so thoroughly dose her earlier in the day....) and has been eating fine again and full of spirit and energy.

We're going to give it another week and believe me, I want it to work out as I still think this will be a great environment for DD once she gets the hang of it. Incidentally, my MIL who runs a nursery herself was quite shocked at the severity of DD's reaction.

Today we've been doing some home-made play therapy, playing "nursery school" with DD, who's been responding nicely. This helped us elicit that the staff member she's bonded with wasn't there on Monday and then she wanted Daddy to take her home....that staff member is beck next week, so hopefully she'll be willing to put the work in to help DD get settled. I've also been doing some play therapy on the withholding too - not sure if that's why today's evacuation happened fairly easily, but I'm hoping it helped a bit anyway!!

The nursery staff are discussing DD at their meeting this week, so hopefully that will mean all of them are aware that she needs that extra bit of encouragement, even if it appears she doesn't (part of the problem - DD just goes quiet and withdrawn if she's unhappy, so it goes unnoticed)....

I'm a bit disappointed it didn't occur to them already that a newcomer like DD who hasn't previously attended a nursery, let alone a Montessori set up, might need extra support to start with

If we do decide to all it a day with this nursery, I have every intention of trying a different pre-school instead - I'm not intending to send her into Reception without having got the hang of being in situations without Mummy or Daddy there.... One of the other pre-schools we looked at was lovely and DD liked it, so I would be inclined to move her there if necessary.

[ClimbingPenguin]

anyone else's DCs talking a lot in made up words?

[Bearcrumble]

Made up words, grunts, shrieks, clicks, funny walks - you name it. I am a pooka apparently. Also the poo/wee/bum stuff is tiresome now. It's constant. He's been SO contrary for the last few days.

[LeMousquetaireAnonyme]

CP since DD2 is still talking mostly in a made up language I am not sure what to answer, kika is broken for example (I don't think she is doing it intentionally though if it is what you mean)

[LeMousquetaireAnonyme]

DD2's teacher has been attacked by wild dogs she is OK (ish), but terrified of any dogs (she has one at home!), couldn't walked for a week and is still on rabie's shots...
I am scared sometime when I walk

[ClimbingPenguin]

poor thing

I was attacked as a child but have mostly overcome my fear. Dog was put down and it's mostly only German Shepard's that make me really wary now.

the use of made up words is a new thing. I assume it's just a phase but she's getting more insistent in their use.

[SocietyClowns]

I ran down the lawn at my uncle's when I was less than 2 and his German Shepard thought it was a game, jumped up, put his paws on my shoulders and pulled me back, then stood over me. I have no memory of this but am cautious around dogs.
Now wild dogs are a completely different ball game. Hope she is okay mous! Is it a big problem where you are? Are daylight hours reasonably safe?

[ClimbingPenguin]

this dog was half wild, was very badly treating by owners and was encouraged to be violent etc. It escaped one day and came into the park I was playing in. when parents let children play in the park with no adults

... kinda

how's your work going soc?

[SocietyClowns]

CP going really well actually. Great boss, great team and just had my contract extended by another year .

[ClimbingPenguin]

excellent :)

we now have anti histamines for DS, went for the drowsy option In my defence we have been back up to three hourly wakings, which I think is mostly itching based.

[stoofadoof]

< quick wave > and my two-penneth IC fwiw on nursery (also another vote for the book mous mentions?) DD has always been anxious, and very slow to adapt comfortably to new situations? she was in (an excellent) nursery a few days a week from 6 months as i returned to work, but every time there was a staff change in the room, or she moved up to the next room there was a blip - a few weeks of discomfort, grumpiness, tears, poor pooing, the works - but she generally loved being there (and i honestly don't think that's mothers guillt!) When we moved to NZ, we tried her in a nursery there - but it was a VERY different set up - it just IS in NZ - there was lots of free-play, different child/worker ratios, nowhere near as much structure or routine as she was used to. I knew within a couple of days that it just wasn't right for her, and she didn't go back? when we got home again, she went back to her old nursery and she blossomed again, increased confidence etc?

as she's got older (she was 6 in november) she is still anxious and slow to feel comfortable, she still gets grumpy, and gets a sore tummy from not pooing? but we now get headaches and hideous, hideous teeth-grinding too oh and disrupted sleep? BUT it's much easier to reason with her, and to help her develop coping mechanisms and ways of handling things? i guess as time's gone on we've felt our way through and learnt from experience (I also see an awful lot of my childhood self in her, including the speedy temper!)

anyway, i think what I'm trying to say maybe in amongst all that waffle is - it gets easier, I think you'll know your DD and what's right but I would deffo seek out another nursery/pre-school setting for her?

when it came to choosing a school for her, the two options were the village school - really holistic approach, child centred, excellent ofsted, held up as national example of first rate small school or the next village along - still a good school but without the 'outstanding' accolades? we put her in the next village along because it felt immediately much more 'her' ? fx we were right? she settled quickly and happily, but we still got a blip (lasted about 6 wks!) when she went into yr 1 (lesson learnt for this summer is to have a quiet week at home starting to get more schooly again before the new year starts!)

anyway.. that was supposed just to be a quick wave.. sorry!!

[stoofadoof]

and hey everyone else!

[rainbowweaver]

Hey back to you stoof

No made up words here,though DDs taken to naming her soft toys with names such as hm, op, oops the bear etc. and now likes pretending to be a baby from time to time. The baby acting seemed to come up after she turned 3, so may have been a reaction against being a big girl in nursery :). Only at home and once satisfied goes back to being a big girl again.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

stoof that's really interesting to hear - thanks! DH and I are continuing to mentally acclimatise DD to nursery by various means and we'll see what next week brings. Yes to the need for more structure - DD is inclined to be a bit obsessive about routine so the free form Montessori approach may not be the ideal for her, whereas the other pre-school we looked at is far more structured.

That said, we'll see how it goes this week. DD has been a lot more bolshy these last couple of days - she definitely needs somewhere to impose a bit of discipline (apart from us - we do our best!) so if it doesn't work out at the Montessori, I'll most definitely be sending her elsewhere. Meanwhile, I've arranged to talk to my play therapist friend this weekend about the best thing to do to help DD find coping strategies for her anxieties.....

CP yay for anti-histamines! I was hugely relieved when our GP gave DS some when his eczema was acting up - they really helped get us through the next few nights until the hc cream had it under control again.

SC hoorah that your job values you - as well they should!

[ClimbingPenguin]

he has been on the hc for a month, had a two day break and is now back on it. This GP seems unconcerned about length of time but I would rather get it under control and have hc-free days. DH is tasked with sorting out the referral.

We find he is really itchy even when his skin is almost alright. That part doesn't seem to go away that often.