June 10 babies are growing apace, teething and crawling all over the place.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

Here we are ladies. Let's see if we can manage to chat a bit more on this one :).

[latrucha]

Hello all,

Welcome back Pogue. I'm sorry to hear about your break-up. Do you have support over here? How are you finding things?

Daniel is being very jolly now and crawling everywhere. I would say to those whose DCs aren't mobile to not worry at all. My two children cold not be more different. DS has wanted to move himself from about 4 months; DD had very little interest until 17 months and then did everything in about a week. I did nothing different really. They just have the yen or they don't, IMO. And for the record, GPs etc don't start really worrying until they are very much older than DD was.

And (whisper) Daniel slept 10.30 to 6.30 last night. I'm sure it was a fluke. DD however woke up loads. Oh my Woolly word! as they say on Show me Show me.

[MrsAlwaysRight]

Will definately be hunting for some dairy/egg free cake recipes!

I think they will look to retest when she is about 3. They said quite a lot of children do grow out of these particular allergies so fingers crossed.

[greensnail]

I'm a bit rubbish at the controlled crying. Did some on sunday and monday night and it worked ok but i found it very hard. Tuesday night she didn't wake up too much so I just fed her when she did and that was ok, but I suppose I should really pick a plan and stick to it consistently otherwise its not really fair on Alice and it probably won't work!

Anyway, we've received a CD in the post from my brother in Australia today which apparently will work miracles and make her settle as soon as I switch it on! I haven't spoken to my brother or SIL to ask if its worked for their DS (I assume they have one for him too) so I'll just have to see what happens with it tonight!

[latrucha]

Is it white noise?

Would it help withthe CC if you said, I'll do it for x-number of nights (we did three with DD) and if it doesn't help, I'll go back to whatever it is you're more comfortable with?

[CantSleepWontSleep]

Doing cc doesn't mean that you can't feed them at all though greensnail. You could set a period of time that you think she should go between feeds, and then say that you'll do cc if she wakes before 5 hrs (or whatever) are up, or if she's difficult about going back to sleep after a feed, but otherwise you will feed her.

[Barbeasty]

Does anyone else have a baby who enjoys hitting their head?

Quite apart from the new favourite game where Ruth shakes her head really hard, and then looks at DH & me in turn so we have to copy, she will sit there at least once a day hitting the side of her head pretty hard. And then yesterday she started head butting the wall with the top of her head, and was obviously enjoying it.

I'm hoping that these are all little development stages she's going through (I think the head shaking stems from my ponytail flicking around which she found funny) but would rather she didn't go around deliberately hurting herself.

[BraveGirl]

I am never saying anything again about J's sleeping - everytime I do, it goes to pot!
J loves to stand and is really enjoying soft play and climbing, not that keep on bumping his head though!
MrsAR - if you find any decent recipes, please point me in the right direction. I am gradullay returning to dairy a little at a time. Not sure if it's the dairy or just the work stress and continued breastfeeding, but my weight is in freefall. Now down to 9and half stone, which I haven't been for at least 10 years....(I've probably just jinxed that too!)

[latrucha]

D doesn't hit himself but both of mine have found head shaking hilarious. He does soemtimes like to press the top of his head against things which is a little peculiar. His favourite place to do this is in a shopping trolley. He sits and hodls the bar and then bends and pushes his head against it. It's very peculiar. All three of us fnd ourselves staring at him doing it, wondering why.

Bravegirl - bet you feel slinky now! I'd love to be that weight again. My wieght has been going down slowly, though not so much recently. I am wondering what effect not feeding at night will have.

CSWS's idea has helped some people I know.

Daniel is very jolly now, after a slow start mirthwise. He's a loely giggler. He is a little adventurer too, always wanting to go into any place that he can;t quite see, like a hall or cupboard.

[whenwillisleepagain]

Hi everyone, just trying to catch up, and not doing a very good job of it. Welcome back pogue & hope things going ok.

I am just cursing my lack of maternal intuition. Alice had exceptionally bad nights 2 weekends ago, which I put down to the dreaded sleep regression. It turned out she had an ear infection and this week she had another one, so is on ABs this time. She has been pretty stoical but had another big disturbance two nights ago, which with hindsight must have been when she was in most discomfort, before the ear started oozing.

I've been trying gently (especially in view of the ear infection) to get her to go to sleep without bf - for first time ever, I had to be out on Monday and DH got her to lie down in the cot and go to sleep, so now trying it nightly.

Alice doesn't bang her head but she does like doing a wiggly thing from side to side with it. She's been going in the baby swings at the park and likes it. And yes, I've fallen foul of DH by letting her take his DVDs off shelves.

[goodname]

Fergus also loves the head shaking thing. He also shakes his head whenever I say no no no which is very cute. Sleep has been hell this week as Fergus has yet another cold combined with a bad stomach/really bad wind which makes him really restless and wake regularly. I am wrecked.
We also have been doing really badly with the consistency at night. Tried for a bit to make him sleep a certain amount of time before feed and in his own bed but then he got ill and ended up back with me. The DH tried having him all night with no feeding which worked til DH got ill, then in with me feeding when he wanted. Decided to get strict again and try crying in cot but he decided to get ill on the same day so didnt have the heart to try it!
Had good day today tho, its lovely and warm here so we had a picnic on the beach and it was not freezing. Fergus loved the sand and the water and hoping the sea air will be good for his cold.
He seems to be down to one long nap in the afternoon instead of 2 a day. Is this okay for this age. Whats everyone elses babies doing nap wise?
Booked flights to France (near La Rochelle) for June so we can visit some friends who moved there last year. Vary excited but flights are v late at night so worried about how unsettled baby will be.
Hope eveyone else is enjoying some lovely sunshine today too :)

[greensnail]

Also enjoying lovely sunshine here. :) Alice is having great fun exploring our garden and I think I can now officially say she's a bum-shuffler as she can now get right across the room on her bum - usually making a beeline for the bin so she can empty it!

DD1 loved head shaking but Alice loves to nod her head - we like to joke that she's obviously much more of a positive person than her sister.

That sounds very familiar about the ear infection WWISA. I was the same when Alice had one and didn't realise what was causing all the distress until the next day when the ear started oozing.

LaT- your description of Daniel pushing his head against things reminds me of DD1. She likes to lift up her top and push her bare tummy against different surfaces, she especially seems to like the feel of glass against her tummy

goodname - Alice seems to be working down to one nap a day too. Bit of a shock to me as DD1 was still having 2 naps a day when Alice was born but then she's always been a sleepy thing.

The CD seems to be working quite well for settling Alice. Its not white noise, but nice relaxing music which is meant to support natural sleep cycles and the resting heart beat or something. I find it very relaxing too and its definitely helping her to settle better, even when DD1 decides to come and help mummy put Alice to bed. Its this CD if anyone's interested.

Thanks for that CSWS. That's basically what I've been doing, but feeding every 3 hours not 5. Will see how we go and try to stretch the feeds out a bit at some point, but am busy potty training during the day at the moment so don't want to take on too much at night at the same time.

[PogueMahone]

Thanks everyone. It's a relief to be separated, actually; things were pretty grim and it's nice to have a bit of peace :) I'm loving lots about being back in the UK (Chocolate Hobnobs! Good TV! And of course having friends and family close by for support.)

M does the head-shaky thing - isn't that strange they're all doing it at about the same age. Must be a developmental thing. He is still on 2 naps a day, unless we're out and about and it disrupts his schedule.

It's so nice to get out in the sun, it really is good for the soul. Picnic here today too. More weather like this please!

[latrucha]

I've got flu here. What's everyone else's excuse?

[CantSleepWontSleep]

laT. 3 kids and half term!

But I'll throw in a question. A few weeks ago I recall several of you saying that you had limpet children. How long did it last please, and how severe was it? J is utterly despondent if I put him down. He stopped breathing and turned blue in the face the other day because I took 4 steps away to get a cloth to wipe his face with after dinner . He's been really quite miserable and not sleeping or eating well the last 2 or 3 weeks.

He actually had his first ever sleep in his buggy today though - hurrah!

[latrucha]

It didn't get awful here, and has really eased off. He did cry every time I put him down for a while, but since he's moving, he can follow me anyway, so I think that has helped. I must say, I just ignored it. I wouldn't have down with DD but I just didn't feel able to make the same mistake again. Has he been exposed to anything like chicken pox?

[CantSleepWontSleep]

Nope - no sickness, except a slightly snotty nose (which is almost permanent with all of mine when little), possibly some teething (but still no actual teeth), and some exposure to dairy, which I'm still unsure whether he's ok with or not, but he was miserable for a couple of days even before his first exposure.

[greensnail]

I'm not mentioning sleep and didn't have anything else to say

Alice is in super separation anxiety mode too. I was thinking we might have got away with it a bit as she's one of the oldest on the thread and everyone else already seemed to have it, but no such luck. She's also desperately trying to get moving and wants to be walking. Is doing that thing where you try to sit her down and she goes rigid and won't bend in the middle so you end up standing her instead.

She suddenly seems to look much less baby-like as well. Its making me quite broody for another one. I wonder when we'll get our first pregnancy on the thread....

[Barbeasty]

We've been busy! We went down to Plymouth on Friday and spent the night on my Dad's boat which Ruth loved. She really enjoyed crawling around on the bed, giggling as she went right to the far end where it gets narrow and she couldn't be followed! We went for a day sail Saturday, and this time Ruth wasn't hideously sick.

We had my SIL and her daughter staying from Sunday-Tuesday, and then yesterday we went out for my birthday.

So today's the first quiet day for almost a week. And Ruth was up half the night until I dosed her with calpol. She still has a bit of a temperature now, but another dose seems to have sent her to sleep- so I can get up now...

Ruth is bad with separation. But it's more being handed to other people than leaving her alone. I can put her down in the lounge and go to the kitchen without many problems, but hand her to my dad or brother, and she screams, even if I'm right next to them (fun clambering onto a boat). And my other brother came into Dad's house noisely on Friday and Ruth screamed then hyperventilated. Took a while to calm down.

I hope it improves soon- she's due to start nursery in June.

[minimoonumbertwo]

Oh my goodness greensnail you are right, it could well be time for some announcements - certainly not from me though!! I could never believe friends of mine who were pregnant by their other child's first birthday - madness!!

[latrucha]

It won't be coming from us! Our two DCs sleep has been so awful for so long that both me and DH are giving up on our dearly held desire for three children.

I am thinking of starting a thread in sleep about it, but feel strangely rleuctant. Maybe because DH is actually the one looking after DCs at night and partly because I just don't know where to begin. Can I run it past you guys? Please feel free to skip it if you don't feel like it.

Ok.

DH is looking after the kids at night firstly because I look after them during the day and he has felxible working until July. The second reason he is is that I need a bi of recuperation time after losing two parents in two years - let alone having had two children, various illnesses and the loss of two other close family members.

At first, he did really well, keeping them in their cots but due to tiredness this has all gone downhill and the three of them sleep, usually very badly, in his bed. He has had enough and thinks it can't get any worse. Sometimes the kids do sleep all night in their own beds but rarely.

DD is 3.4. She has been greatly affected by disturbances while my fatehr was dying and since (in November). Essentially, though she is lonely in her room and wants company. She says her bed is uncomfortable etc...

We did do CC with DD when she was younger, but don't feel it's the right way to go now. She seems very fragile right now. She can also make herself vomit at will now, and starts to do this if any strong opposition is put to her about sleeping.

Daniel is a baby so there's teeth etc to contend with. He doesn't feed at night. He is pretty happy for me to settle him with songs pats etc but not DH. He teethes very badly.

Our current plan is now to move Daniel earlier than we planned into her room. We're going away after Easter and we're going to do it when we come back.

DD has been looking forward to this. However, when we told her this morning she was not keen. She likes sleepign with Papa, i think.

Our plan is to keep them in their room, in their beds. DH is going to take to working at nights and sleeping in the day so he can make a good fist of it. He'll settle them with rocking patting etc. He lieks working at nights anyway.

Does this sound like a rational plan? Is there anything that sounds ridiculous? I feel really angry with DD for being so manipulative and really sorry that she feels insecure and lonely. She is really the problem. We could easily sort Daniel if she wasn't in the room or so likely to wake up. I have lost perspective on the whole problem.

Thanks for reading, if you did!

[dinosaurinmybelly]

Hello! I am getting approaching the danger zone right here as DS2 and DD1 were both conceived when their siblings were 11 months old. I'm keen for it not to happen again as physically I am definitely at maximum capacity in looking after these 3 but something definitely happens when they stop looking like babies around this stage...

La Trucha - what a horrible couple of years you have had. I'm so sorry. We had this very problem but with 3 children up until recently and it is now almost resolved so please believe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Reward chart and praise worked with my eldest who is 4. It was a bit over the top to begin with but he soon started just doing it naturally and not asking for the reward. His younger brother followed suit very quickly although I'm not sure he really understands the reward chart. He is 2.5. Zoe has 7 teeth now and suddenly seems to be relaxing at night into some really lovely deep sleeps. She snuggled into her cot when i put her down and this was unheard of a month ago. It sounds like your little ones are dealing with their own stuff and perhaps the reward system and putting them both in this same room might work for you. I hope so... Good luck!

[latrucha]

Thanks DIMB. We have tried all sorts of positive reinforcement with DD but it essentially makes no difference. She's just lonely. MAybe we'll put up a chart again and have one for Daniel too as an incentive as he is bound to sleep worse.

[Ladylou83]

Just saying Hi!

Dont use MN as much as I should, but was on the original June Bus in TTC, and the anti-natal group. DD Erin was born 16th June, weighing 7lb 1oz at 8.12pm, and is just brilliant.

Will have to go back and read the entire old thread and hear how your all doing now, looking forward to it :)

[MonkeyMargot]

Hi all. Welcome back ladyLou and congrats!

Pogue sorry to hear about your breakup. You sound positive about the decision which can only be a good thing. Good luck - hope you have lots of family support.

LaT I think you have nothing to lose by putting your 2 DCs into a room together. In theory, you are simply doing what you already planned on doing longer term, and your DD might stop feeling lonely/scared etc. I think if your DH is strong on this one, the 2 of them will thrive sharing in the end. Our boys have always shared, and they definitely enjoy the company!

All is going well here. The boys are both crawling at speed now, and Atticus is standing a lot (Rafferty is a bit slower developmentally than his older brother). I finished BF last month after a nasty nip, but both are eating enormous amounts so only having one milk feed a day now anyhow.

Lots going on at the mo, we are moving out of London in 10 days time, after having lived here for 15 years, to a little village in South Oxfordshire (via my parents for a week). We will have just over a week in the new house before going off on a long trip to France for 7 weeks, then back to reality and back to work full-time. We've already found a fantastic nanny so feeling good about that.

Sympathies to all who are still struggling with sleep issues etc.

Greensnail I predict YOU will be the first to get PG on this thread! It certainly won't be me thanks very much......3 DCs is quite enough for me.

[whenwillisleepagain]

Just catching up - welcome back ladylou and congrats

la t I think your sleep plan sounds rational. We are going round in circles talking about sleep plans here but not doing anything as it just feels pointless to start until we know we can be consistent and DH and I never seem to feel in the mood for a 'DS and Alice sleep discussion' when we do get a bit of time together. We have DS who is 4.5 and like a wall of noise and then Alice, who never seems to get a peaceful or consistent bedtime. DS started saying how lonely he was when I was PG with Alice and we then used huge amounts of Thomas-the-tank-related rewards to get him back in his bed when Alice was born. One of the debates we're putting off is whether to put them in together or do the big project of turning our study into A's bedroom. It's hoarders' paradise (DH mainly) so a big job. But we both think DS too rough and enthusiastic with Alice and that the 3.5 year gap is not quite great for sharing.

Ah yes, the separation thing. Slight improvement over the last two weeks, but Alice is one of oldest on this thread, 11mo tomorrow, so may explain it. Also her crawling is up a gear, so she just races round after me, which I think helps. She is noticeably happier though to sit and play with things either alone or with DS - only at home though, nursery is another matter, but it's very slowly and slightly improving there.

I am so never getting pg again! Doing it at 42 was knackering and our flat is already too small. But I will cheer anyone else on from the sidelines - I was wondering the other day when some of you might be off to join new antenatal threads. I am off shortly for a steroid injection into my achilles tendon, which has been ropey as hell since I had Alice (from lots of sitting around bf initially, although technically it's a sports injury, if only). Apparently the guy I'm seeing is the only NHS physio who does this procedure, so figure I am lucky. There is a small chance I will be on crutches, so I am hoping not. Anyway the physio department is next to antenatal, and it is a weird feeling to walk past and see the women queueing up for their appointments, with bumps of various sizes.