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JackSkellington · 10/07/2015 22:06

"The ultra lefties". Oh dear. Not everyone who would support this petition is a 'leftie'. I think my political views would be left-leaning (maybe centre-left, I don't know...), and to be completely honest under this budget I will either come out better or not be affected at all. My concern is for those who will be seriously affected by the cuts and austerity measures.

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wigglylines · 10/07/2015 20:01
Grin
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TheTravellingLemon · 10/07/2015 19:46

wigglylines Grin that was the best typo I've seen in ages!

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wigglylines · 10/07/2015 17:15

*anyway Blush

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wigglylines · 10/07/2015 17:15

I don't think anyone thinks the petition has more legitimacy than a general election. If you think that you either haven't read the thread or are projecting your perceptions of "lefties".

If you're gping to go down that road, don't lefties usually come out as more intelligent in test anyay, IIRC? ;)

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niceguy2 · 10/07/2015 16:54

The really funny thing is that they think a petition will work at all. It just shows how naive the ultra lefties are.

I fail to see how some stupid online petition would ever have more legitimacy than the election that was voted for by people who actually took the time & effort to walk to polling booth and vote.

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StonedGalah · 10/07/2015 11:01

This thread is gold! It has kept me amused for a bit.

What happened to the petition? Did the Queen see the wrongness of the democratically elected party? So many questions!

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Alyosha · 10/07/2015 10:45

I'm on the left - but we lost. Why did we lose? Because our message was unattractive to voters.

I, and many other lefties, are bemused by this - obviously we think that a fairer society etc. can only really be had by redistribution.

Conservatives disagree, and made their case well enough to win.

Instead of retreading old ground let's work to make Labour re-electable.

I've always maintained that voting for specific policies is a fool's errand; you should vote for the party that ideologically matches your general ideology. That way you know that their general "thrust" as it were, will be in a direction you agree with.

Gemauve - it's not true that Labour campaigned against AV. Miliband gave the party free reign to campaign on either side. Miliband was pro-AV, and I was part of the Labour's Pro-Av campaign.

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TheTravellingLemon · 09/07/2015 09:20

Thanks for the link, but I think I already did something similar back in May. That one was a bit bigger IIRC and not online. It had a special name and was all over the news. Can't quite remember what it was called, but if I remember I'll pop back.

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IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 09/07/2015 09:15

Hah! Love this thread, it's just proven how right I was to vote this government in.

As someone who loves this country deeply, I'm proud that I helped to get it the government it needs and proud that I helped keep you lot far, far away from having any sort of influence!!

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Radiatorvalves · 08/07/2015 21:19

I didn't vote Tory, but I have respect for the democratic process.

But thanks for the funniest thread I've read in a while! Grin

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Kardamyli · 08/07/2015 20:56

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at what I'm reading from posters like Wiggly! As a previous poster said its like the fucking Indyref all over again. What is it with Trotskyist labour voters? Why do they insist that only they can be right, that people have been tricked and conned and that if only we could see the error of our ways we'd be signing a petition begging for someone like that twat Corbyn to to form a government.

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squidzin · 04/07/2015 10:15

I'm flattered, no really, but so sorry sweetie u are just not my type ;)

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niceguy2 · 03/07/2015 15:51

Ahhh so you're one of those 'revolution' types. You know...the ones who want a revolution but have no concrete plans as to what should replace the status quo, other than some wishy washy idealistic claptrap, usually interspersed with words like "Neoliberalism"

In other words all fur coat and no knickers.

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squidzin · 03/07/2015 09:42

No revolution was won on a majority vote.

Labour can go the same way as Tory as far as i care btw.

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niceguy2 · 02/07/2015 22:18

It's not about giving up what you believe. It's about accepting the results of a democratic election based on rules we were given a chance to change a few years ago and decided overwhelmingly not to.

Had Labour had won, what would you think of a bunch of right wingers trying to organise a petition? Pathetic right?

For the record I didn't vote for the Tories either. I'm just not whining about it like a bunch of girly schoolkids.

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squidzin · 02/07/2015 18:29

Sorry to introduce the real world to you, MrNiceGuy, where people don't give up in what they believe in so easily just because of a few elections. Thankfully.

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niceguy2 · 02/07/2015 10:21

Christ, aren't the left a right bunch of sore losers!?!?!

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Gemauve · 01/07/2015 08:25

My point was the uselessness of nationalised industries compared to imporvements driven by private enterprise

One might point to, for example, the nationalised British computer industry (ICL). And the nationalised (for all practical purposes) British micro electronics industry (Inmos).

And then look at the fantastic success of the wholly private ARM.

What happened to British nationalised industries was that they were forced by government to do things that were commercially suicidal, and in the end the government's willing to underwrite losses was less than the government's desire to impose loss-making strategies. The best example is air liners. The VC10 was a potentially world-class design. But a combination of nationalised BOAC and nationalised (for practical purposes) Vickers were forced to modify the design to handle commercial basket-case "hot and high" routes that BOAC wouldn't have operated given the choice and Vickers wouldn't have built an aircraft for given the choice.

The VC10 ended up as a massively noisy, complex, expensive design which could operate from hot and high rough airstrips in the former Empire (the reason for the government's insistence on the capability) but was so noisy and expensive it wasn't viable for profitable routes. It lasted as a military transport until a few years ago precisely because of this capability, but airlines ran screaming for their nearest Boeing salesman, even though it meant paying in dollars.

The same argument applies to the computers. Was ICL there to build competitive computers, or to provide jobs in Manchester? No-one knew, but a circular firing squad arose so that British universities were hobbled by being forced to buy obsolescent, labour-intensive designs (1900s? In the late 1970s? Seriously?) which meant that the whole British science and engineering community suffered in exchange for a few hundred jobs in West Gorton. The moment they could buy something else, they did, and the whole scheme unravelled.

Nationalised industries built products no-one really wanted to sell to customers who weren't given a choice. It could have been better (the US poured vast amounts of money into IBM and Boeing via defence contracts, but let them use the profit to build commercially viable products) but Britain micro-managed these companies into the ground.

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caroldecker · 01/07/2015 07:19

My point was the uselessness of nationalised industries compared to imporvements driven by private enterprise. Some people on this thread appear to despise private companies and international competition, whilst not realising that nearly all the things we enjoy in our life, would not exist in a socialist utopia.

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wigglylines · 01/07/2015 02:27

Elora rate?! Elaborate!

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wigglylines · 01/07/2015 02:27

Caroldecker i'm still unsure as to what your point was, care to Elora rate?

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wigglylines · 01/07/2015 02:24

Teflon?!

I waa thinking more about things like the spacecraft and the entire new technology of space exploration.

Space travel is essential for the survival of the species.

At some point this planet will become hostile to human life. It could be so long into the future that humans have evolved into something else, or it could be quite soon (e.g. a meteor or massive climate change).

Yes of course the USA and USSR had ulterior motives for wanting to be in space - but long term, the technology it will develop into is essential for the survival of our decendents.

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Gemauve · 01/07/2015 01:10

Nasa - budget of c$20 billion a year since 1960 - output Teflon

It's a myth. It was discovered in 1938 (rather before the space programme) by the annoyingly private DuPont company.

Not even NASA claim it.

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TheCraicDealer · 01/07/2015 00:40

I'm really finding it hilarious that Liz might discount a General Election which resulted in a clear majority because of a petition. Not only do those powers exist almost purely in theory (much to the delight of the republicans on here) but she's also well known for her staunch desire to be "above" the political system. Look how ragin she was when Cameron inferred she was against Scottish independence! Now, with Charles you might have more of a chance of some meddling, but "Monarch overrules election result"? Really? On the basis of an unmonitored petition, with one "vote" per email address (I have four personally)? In the UK in 2015? If that's the kind of thing you want happening you need your head felt once you leave sixth form.

Also- NASA? The biggest ever cock measuring project featuring the U.S. and the USSR? Please. I think there were other issues at play there rather than simply academic endeavours.

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