Tory scum make lying, insulting and patronising response to workfare petition

[ttosca]

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/29356

It's just unbelievable. Who do they think they're talking to?

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Tesco would be unlikely to employ a teacher.

People do get turned down for jobs for being overqualified.

[Clytaemnestra]

Do you get a reference from your employer after you do the work programme? I would see that as a massive plus to it. In a previous role, I used to work with a warehouse manager who recruited pickers for the warehouses. Got a lot of job apps for each role. Once he'd discounted the people who clearly didn't even want the job but were applying because the job center told them to, he still had a stack, including a lot of long term unemployed, some of whom had heartbreaking cover letters. If you had someone who had been a picker previously or someone who had been unemployed for years, he would have taken the one with the experience as the long term unemployed candidate was an unknown quantity, old references and no guarantee they are actually ready for work. But if you had done work recently, had a reference from Tesco or wherever then it would have given you more of a chance. And while the administration of the scheme might have been awful, I agree with the principle of why the scheme can be a good thing.

I also am in total agreement that the job centre is a disaster, and frankly they would be better off investing in sorting that out, so it is a proper resource and help to getting people into work, with real cv help and personal service, not the disastrous box ticking jobsworth enterprise it is now. Your teacher friend shouldn't have been recommended a literary course, that is clearly ridiculous. Are there other courses she could have done that would have made her more employable though?

[Darkesteyes]

How about proper paid apprentiships Clouds.
Its all very well to say that i havent answered your questions but when you use phrases like "languish on jsa" its obvious to me that you have already made up your mind.
Oh and i was on workfare under New Labour. And it led to a job alright. In a sex chatline office.
After doing 3 months on workfare at my local council they wanted me to do three months at a soup factory for my JSA. So i took the chatline job that i saw in the paper.
So the husbands of lots of middle class Tory voters who think like you were ringing me for naughty chat.
Im soooo sure that they didnt mind their husbands phoning me and the other girls though.
After all it was keeping us off JSA!!!!!!!

[Darkesteyes]

Cly there are thousands of people on these work placements ALL WITH THE SAME REFERENCE.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Apprenticeships are a brilliant thing, and there should be more of them available. I'm not sure that they are an alternative to MWA though, otherwise loads of school leavers wood choose to sit around on JSA waiting for their automatic turn at a paid apprenticeship to come up.

And an apprenticeship is training, I can't see why you think it should attract NMW. My DH took and apprenticeship when he left school, and it was the perfect kickstart to his adult life, but he spent a hell of a lot of time making tea and holding screwdrivers. He also got a lot of training, and most people have to actually pay for training. But because he made tea and was a general dogsbody, he got paid a pittance. Probably not more than todays equivalent of JSA, it certainly wasn't enough to live on. Do you think someone who has been unemployed for months should get for free, and actually be paid, for what others have to pay for themselves?

I'm afraid I don't see the problem with working for a sex chat line, but then I'm a volunteer for a charity that has a help line and sex calls are par for the course. Not that hard to deal with, and I wouldn't mind being paid for it if I didn't have another job. I'd have done it long before my unemployment had led me to the stage where I was going to be put on a work program.

[Clytaemnestra]

I'm fascinated by the idea of a Tory voter sex chat line. I imagine it would involve a lot of spanking somehow. And the odd desperate lib Dem who had no other outlet for getting off so pretended as hard as he could.

[Clytaemnestra]

And you've kind of proved a point that there was work that you could do out there, but you didn't want to do it. Until you had to do other work you didn't like, so you went out and got a paying job and came off JSA. Isn't that a good thing?

I did tarot phone lines at university for a while. If you can get them to forward through to your home phone rather than working out of an office I found it pretty cushy.

[nailak]

"It is not feasible to work most of your day and then expect people to be efficient in finding jobs, in between eating, cleaning, showering, and other normal activities which people do after a day at work

Really? I'll let all the people I know who do a huge amount of voluntary work on top of their paid jobs that what they are doing isn't feasible then shall I? I'll also pass it on to anyone who works two jobs, or who has children to look after, or who has indeed looked for a job while working full time then right?"


People on JSA are supposed to be actively seeking work and available for work, therefore they cannot do volunteer work, study, or job placements in relevant fields. If they are working in tescos they are not available for work.

[nailak]

are we no longer in the days where people looking for work are advised to go to the places, hand out cvs directly to managers, go to recruitment agencies etc? If I was doing workfare for Tescos and recruitment agency called me for that typing test or interview or something, then what would happen? normally they call on the same day ime, or the day before, so i would be at work unable to answer my phone and it would loose me the opportunity?

[CloudsAndTrees]

Plenty of volunteer work can be done around a full time job. I know loads of people that manage it. It is very possible to be available for work while volunteering. There are countless volunteering opportunities, at all different times of the day and of the week.

It is complete bollocks to say that people on JSA are supposed to be actively seeking work and therefore cannot work or study. If people honestly believe that type of crap, then that is exactly why work experience programs are needed.

Clytaemnestra @ Tory voter sex chat line!

[nailak]

it is not bollocks because it happened to my husband.

They said I can study, but he couldn't, as he wouldnt be available for employment, he had to do workplacement, so he went and found his own workplacement, and they said sorry you cannot do that workplacement, you have to do one of ours.

If it is bollocks then someone needs to tell the job centre staff that, as they dont seem to know.

[aufaniae]

"It is very possible to be available for work while volunteering. There are countless volunteering opportunities, at all different times of the day and of the week."

Yes but you don't get to choose your own hours to suit you here.

You will be told, you are stacking shelves as Tesco on night shift (or whatever), these are your hours, get on with it.

[Viviennemary]

Giving people a choice between starving or doing a work placement is not a true choice.

Perhaps. But I had a job I hated for years. Was it a true choice that I worked there. Not really. But I needed the money. So I stuck it. I don't think people should have the choice not to work if they are able to and still collect benefits.

[nailak]

yeah so let them work and pay them wages innit?

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Most benefit claimants dont choose not to work Vivienne. There are very few jobs that would actually pay the bills. People have to put their families first.

Making work pay should be about paying a living wage and creating jobs. Not cutting benefits or forcing people in to workfare.

And if there are jobs to be done the government should be encouraging employers to employ. Not paying them to take on free labour. Its undermining the NMW and its stopping job creation in its tracks.

[Viviennemary]

That is all very well but the reality has to be faced. At the moment there are not enough jobs. I know people who haven't been able to get jobs. And young people out of university who have taken jobs in shops and so on. Labour didn't have the anwer.

And what exactly is job creation in any case. There is no such thing. I think there is nothing wrong with work experience or workfare call it what you will. And people in work look for new jobs while they are in work. Having a job doesn't stop you looking for a job. I agree times are tough. Very few jobs that will actually pay the bills. You are right there. Which is the reason why people can't buy houses, can't leave home and be independent. But the answer isn't more and more benefits.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

No one is asking for more benefits they are simply asking for the system they paid into to do what its supposed to until they find another job.

If there arent enough jobs, thats an issue for the government to address, not Joe Bloggs on the street. And not by forcing people to work for nothing. Joe Bloggs signs the JSA agreement and looks for a job, thats where it stops.

Believe me, no one enjoys a life on benefits. There is a very small number of people who might choose it, but why punish the masses for a few idiots? Most people want to get off it asap. Forcing them into workfare is just insulting.

[CloudsAndTrees]

They said I can study, but he couldn't, as he wouldnt be available for employment, he had to do workplacement, so he went and found his own workplacement, and they said sorry you cannot do that workplacement, you have to do one of ours.

Open university courses can be done anytime. Like after you've done your days work of job hunting.

Yes but you don't get to choose your own hours to suit you here.

Thankfully, in many voluntary jobs, you do. I might have one available if anyone wants it. Do it at midnight or three in the afternoon if you want. It would look great on a CV.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Or you could pay someone a fair price Clouds.

[CloudsAndTrees]

What, from a small charity that has no employees and only exists because of volunteers?

Yeah, ok then.

[aufaniae]

CloudsAndTrees, and is that job offered through the WorkFare scheme? If not then how is it relevant to this discussion?

[aufaniae]

I think what some of the supporters fo WorkFare are possibly misunderstanding is that people criticising WorkFare aren't saying we're against the idea of work experience or training schemes for the unemployed.

Real work experience or training periods which are appropriate, well managed and increase the possibility of a real job are a great idea.

Workfare is none of these. It's badly thought out and implemented. It benefits big business but may harm the economy, and isn't delivering on the promise of lowering unemployment in real terms (although it does make the figures look better).

[aufaniae]

Here are some examples of what Work Fare's like.

?I worked in admin since leaving college. It?s all I?ve ever done and to be honest, it?s what I?m good at, it?s all I want to do. I lost my job at an estate agents in the recession and had to go on Jobseekers. I was asked what jobs I was looking for and I told them admin, secretarial and personal assistant work. What I?m qualified and experienced in. They sent me to work for a supermarket for four weeks. I had no choice or I?d lose my money. I finished it last week and was told there was no job at the end as I didn?t have enough ?retail experience?. What was the fucking point of that? ?



"There was a lad who was a single dad. He had two beautiful kids both at school. He was desperate to work and had worked for the same supermarket company before his wife left him and the kids. He thought that the work experience would be a way to get back into work with the company now the kids were back at school?They put him on shifts outside of school hours and he didn?t have anyone to look after the kids. When he tried to talk to the shift manager about it, he was told he had to work the hours they said or they?d report him for non-compliance and he?d lose all his benefits and his house."



"?I was told that I was still expected to look for work during my full time placement. The placement gaffer wouldn?t let me go offsite during my lunch hour to look for work. He was a right hard bastard, task master type. When I complained about the placement he told me to shut up, that I was paid a reasonable wage and he tried to add up all the benefits I was getting to prove it. Thing is I don?t get Housing Benefit as I bought my house just before I my company went bust. He said this justified my £65 working a 30 hour week. I had repayment insurance but it ran out after a year, so now I?m living in hope of finding a job or a rich wife. Then the bru started to hammer me with all these interviews and threats. I apply for at least 10 jobs a week, including minimum wage jobs. I?m no proud. I paid tax all my life and I?m getting nothing but aggro in return and now I might lose my house too. These are very dark times?

*

?I was given a fancy title but all it meant was running around with a mop clearing up spilled jam, alcohol and urine. I was told by other regular staff, these jobs were for ?retards?. My brother has Downs and I wouldn?t let him work with these people. They were rude, bullying, condescending and in the majority. Having a first class degree in Marketing I thought this would be a chance to get my foot in the door and I was excited at the prospect of working with such a large company. On day 1 I took my CV by day 3 it was still on the staff room table for anyone to look at. I was told I?d have to apply for vacancies online like everyone else and that I?d get no special treatment because of my placement.?

From this page

[AnnieLobeseder]

The response would be reasonable if the government were actually using workfare (or whatever they call it, it's just semantics) to get the able-bodied unemployed to contribute to their community for a few hours a week. But the government is sending the jobless to work in businesses for free, as slave labour. There is no way that a profit-earning company should be provided free labour by the government. What incentive have they to employ people when they can get free workers? There are countless stories of people being turned down for jobs in Tesco or ASDA, only to be sent there on workfare.

The idea is fine, the execution is badly flawed and the response to the petition is patronising BS that assumes we don't have any clue what kind of jobs people are being sent to do.

[aufaniae]

Please tell me, who's benefitting most from the examples above - the worker or the employer?

Seems pretty clear cut to me.