How much to give every week at Church?

[GloGirl]

Just curious. I realise what I grew up with was not the norm from a different thread, where my Mum and I were poor and paid up to £1 between us.

I'm about to set up a standing order with the Church and wondering what to do. DH thinks £20 a month my heart says £40.

We are a family of 5 that are starting to attend Catholic church.

[ayeokthen]

Sophie, she asked how much, not to be told how her entire belief system was a crock of shit.

[ayeokthen]

Not Sophie, Sookie

[niminypiminy]

"The vast majority of its investments are in very liquid asset classes such as stocks and shares. It doesn't take any sort of deep research to get a clear breakdown. "

Liquid assets are still assets, nevertheless. The Church Commissioners simply can't sell off the whole lot because their job is to ensure that the Church of England can carry on into the future - with its thousands of medieval churches and cathedrals, its many thousands of employees and retired employees and their spouses, plus all the other things it does. The CofE does have ethical investment policies - IIRC the investment in Wonga was a tiny part of the entire investment portfolio, and was ended after it came to light.

At the local level, some churches are better off, some are poorer. The rich ones subsidise the poorer ones, but basically all the running costs are met by the people in the pews.

[sparechange]

Cing
So you accept that it is incorrect to suggest the CoE is cash poor?
And not everyone can afford to give to both. While churches put tacit pressure on the parishioners to give money in line with their tithe obligations, many will do so to the detriment of charities doing the actual work the tithe obligation should cover.
Meanwhile, churches continue to spread myths (or lies) about how much money they have and how much money they need.

Your church might be covering the cost of keeping the building together but only because you can.
If you couldn't, church HQ would have a legal obligation to maintain a Grade 1 listed building, as the legal owner of the building. You think they would just watch it crumble until you have done enough bring and buy sales to pay for the repairs?

[sparechange]

Liquid assets are still assets, nevertheless.

Cash is still an asset class
If they can have several billion in bonds and shares and still not be able to pay relatively small and totally expected bills, I would argue that is the very definition of financial incompetence and mismanagement.

[niminypiminy]

A final point, before I go and do some work.

Polls consistently show that religious people give more to charity than non-religious - for example research for the BBC by ComRes ( data here ) from 2014 confirmed this. Summary here of findings from the Methodist Church - I couldn't find the original BBC report. Muslims give even more to charity than Christians - and I think normally pay to support their mosque as well.

Giving to your church and giving to a charity are not mutually exclusive; in fact, as far as I know churches encourage you to give to both - as I said, my church collects money for numerous other charities, as well as doing its own charitable work.

[StillSmallVoice]

You should give what is right for you, and what you give is no-one else's business. A useful idea is to think about what else you spend money on - a trip to the cinema? A meal out? A bar of chocolate? Then decide how important those things are compared with your church. If you didn't give that £40 to the church, what would you do with it?

And don't forget to Gift Aid - it makes an enormous difference.

A lot of people think the churches are really wealthy, but in fact most of the wealth is in the buildings - churches and vicarages, and these are enormously expensive to maintain. At a local level most churches (whether Catholic, C of E or independent) rely absolutely on the giving of their congregations for their survival.

[ReallyTired]

"At the local level, some churches are better off, some are poorer. The rich ones subsidise the poorer ones, but basically all the running costs are met by the people in the pews."

Some churches punch above their weight when it comes to income. Our church is in a deprived area, but easily meets its diocesan quota. It is a pretty church and attracts people who want to get married. I feel that quaint churches (which are often the ones which need the mist upkeep) should be allowed more freedom over who they marry. Our church is very pro active about getting its church hall rented out during the week. They also had income from film makers.

A church needs to be a living organisation rather than a museum.

[Boleh]

This is a tricky one between DH and I too as I attend church and he's an atheist! He is happy to give to other charities, particularly ones that support the hobbies he does, RNLI and Miuntain Rescue for example, immediate crisis support or to charities that aim to create self sustaining projects. I am torn between the thought that I should tithe 10% of my income to church (which I really could) or that perhaps, some of that is indeed what tax now does and our other charitable giving kind of 'counts' and giving less is OK.
I am quite happy to give to the church as my church holds its services at a local school to increase space while keeping costs down, runs a food bank, toddler group, drop in centre, youth group and has recently opened up a cafe staffed primarily by people who have been long term out of work, especially ex-addicts to give them experience to apply for other jobs. They obviously also have to pay for the pastor, a part time administrator and the overheads on the smaller building that they use for the groups.
I do really want to increase my giving but feel it's not fair on DH to take from the family income for a cause he doesn't believe in - very tough.

[cingolimama]

Spare, I'm not sure what you're trying to get me to say here. Yes, CofE finances are complex. Yes, they have valuable assets. They have a lot of investments. They have huge obligations. Obviously, as an institution they aren't poor. However, this wealth doesn't sift down to local parish churches, which have to be self-sufficient.

As for your argument that churches put pressure on people to donate, which somehow means they won't contribute to other charities - you might as well yell at anyone who has a drink in the pub, or likes an overpriced frappucino now and then or buys nice skincare products. People have the freedom to choose how to spend their own money, whatever they have. Your argument seems to be that people shouldn't give to their own church ... because it should go to charity instead, is a wee bit controlling.

[BackforGood]

For me £5 in the collection plate seems soo rich. It's because my memories of church are from 20 years ago I have not mentally caught up.

This is why, when my dc were little and we didn't have money, I liked the idea of considering Church another 'activity', and then multiplying by 4 as there were 4 of us going, and putting that sort of amount in. It puts it in today's prices (music lessons, football or dance clubs, choirs or sports groups you belong to, etc.). If you aren't giving at least that, then I think it's worth reconsidering. Over and beyond that, it great if you can afford to.

[quencher]

The ten percent that churches demand I find it disturbing and controlling. I know people who truly believe that their lives will be better because of it. They have debt and they are still giving ten percent plus their time in church.
She is not the only person but quite a few of them that I know. It angers me every time they talk about how they are blessed while leaving on the breadline.
I hate it, I hate it so much.

The pastors and their lifestyle while begging for more from the vulnerable who's lives are hanging on hope.

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

Church of England vicars are paid around £25k. We get a house, some of our bills paid such as council tax and steer and a non contributory pension. It is supposed to be around the same as the teacher of a small primary school. It is not a lot of money for a job that in my case took six years of training. RC priests are paid less.

Independent churches are free to set their own salaries for their ministers. Some of them preach a prosperity gospel - give and you get back in blessings but this is not mainstream and if that blessing is seen as financial not biblical anyway. I suspect that some of the mega churches are pay their staff way more than my stipend but this is not typical of the vast majority of clergy. Many of the jobs advertised at the moment in the C of E are unpaid. They come with a house but you are expected to either have a pension from a previous career or a spouse that works.

The bottom line is that costs money to run a church. The money that goes in the collection plate pays for the gas, electric, water, organist, minister, coffee, grounds maintenance, repairs etc, etc. My church spent thousands updating the electrics last month and is looking at roof repairs this month which will again cost thousands. The only reason we can survive is that some of the larger churches in more affluent areas pay more than they are required to into the central fund.

The idea that the church is cash rich and its ministers are rolling in it is wrong.

I am immensely grateful that my congregation do put into the collection plate. It is the only way we pay the bills.

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

Headteacher of small primary school and water came out as steer, not sure how that happened.

[Dozer]

I don't think clergy have any employment rights either, and often could lose their home if fired.

[niminypiminy]

Clergy aren't technically employees so the legal situation is somewhat different. But in any case your house is part of your remuneration and goes with the job, so if you lose (or leave) your post then you have to leave your house. And of course you lose your house when you retire. But everyone who goes into ministry knows that's the deal.

[Madhairday]

Churches do not demand it, quencher, at least not mainstream c of e (or Catholic AFAIK). There may be some more cult like places which make it a condition of membership but I'd avoid any such.

Pastors lifestyle? No pastor/vicar I know has this prosperous rolling in it lifestyle. Dh is a vicar and paid 24k (varies a little by diocese) and out of that we pay a mortgage so that we have a home to retire to, rent pays some of it. I'd be horrified to think we were pressurising the vulnerable to give 10% as a forced number. Not my experience at all and I am sad if it is everyone's.

A tenth of salary is mentioned in the Bible and seen by many believers as a positive amount but it is not set in stone at all. Everyone is in different circumstances and can afford differing amounts or nothing at all and I have no concept of God as being caught up over amounts (cf widow's offering) but only with what is in the heart.

We've decided to give a certain amount because we believe that is right for us personally, and we have certainly experienced a measure of blessing in that (and I'm not talking prosperity Gospel here as I abhor the concept) I do believe that we are called to push forward beyond our means sometimes and feel the pinch, yes. People are starving, children dying, and we have the means to help. Jesus said explicitly that this is what God requires. Giving to church is part of that for me because I see church as something that supports the most vulnerable and brings hope where there is none. I am not giving to merely mend roofs and paint walls, but those things need to be done if the place is to stay in use and be a centre to reach out to society.

Our new church is a debt relief centre among other things and this sort of thing is at the heart of where I am with it.

[ExcellentWorkThereMary]

I recently attended a talk from a church treasurer who said in his church it cost on average £10 a week per person to run the church. There are 4 of us attend my church but I can't afford £40 a week at the moment. I give what I can afford each week - and I give the kids £1 each to contribute. I try and make up for what I can't afford to give financially by giving my time.

[quencher]

I used pastors to separate it from the vicars and priest. I was talking about the ones that are similar to mega churches or are mega churches. To me most of them are there to make money. I know there is a mega church in London that collects money three times within one service plus they ask you to start a standing order of ten percent of earning. It should be taught that it's nice to give, even if it's ten percent but not because you will get ten folds back. That's gambling with something that will never happen. A person has more of a chance in a gambling machine. Not that I advice them to do that. It was meant as a tongue in cheek comment.

Am not against people contributing to the church because Places like those need money to run and function. What I don't like is when they prey on the vulnerable.

It's not like these churches only get their extra money from church cake sales. They have shops that sell over priced holy water, oils, crosses, self help books, t-shirts, bags you name it. You would think they would go easy on their congregation.

Mega churches prosper because of tithe.

[Madhairday]

I'm fairly suspicious of those sort of churches where everything seems about money. Not all so-called mega churches have this emphasis thankfully; I attended one while dh was training which had a congregation of around 1,000. They never took a 'collection' during services and there was never a requirement that people tithe (this wasn't an Anglican church). They had some services on stewardship etc with emphasis on supporting the poor and vulnerable. People gave to them because they felt they wanted to and the church was able to buy a warehouse from giving but there was never an insidious force in it. I would hate that.

But i have no doubt it happens, especially in some American churches. Just not all.

[SugarMiceInTheRain]

We give 10%. Our church has no paid clergy so that money goes to help humanitarian causes throughout the world, welfare needs of some members (all kept v confidential obviously) and upkeep of the buildings.

[Trashbox]

Isn't the Vatican one of the richest countries in the world, though?

[moonface1978]

Our parish priest (a monsignor) said that "the good news in exchange for the cost of the daily news". He went on to say that the cost of a decent daily newspaper was a reasonable amount to donate.

[moonface1978]

That is, the cost of a week's worth of daily newspapers weekly ...

[LarrytheCucumber]

SillysongswithLarry love your name.
We aim for a tenth but as someone once said, 10 per cent of not very much is quite a lot.