Daughter made to write 'I believe in god' in school

[chickensaladagain]

Dd was in an ethics, philosophy & religion

She had to write a number of statements then say whether they were fact opinion or belief

One of the sentences was 'I believe in god'

She objected as it wasn't true but was told to stop making a fuss

We are a family of atheists -I don't pull my dcs out of any assemblies etc because I think it's important culturally for them to understand religion but surely having to write 'I believe in god' isn't appropriate?

This is not a church school btw

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

I agree alpine - what it is is an incorrect factual statement. "Fred believes in God" could be correctly labelled as Fact.

[exoticfruits]

Fred believes in God isn't a fact- we have no way of knowing whether he is telling the truth.
Writing the opposite would be fine- they were statements and not about the person copying them down.

[YoureBeingADick]

good point exotic. we only know it's a fact if we can ask fred- which we cant. does that then make 'fred believes in god' a belief because someone thinks he does without knowing or does it make it an opinion because someone thinks he does?

'I believe in god' is only a fact if the person saying it does.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Facts are provable. Can you prove that you believe in god?.

Alpine that was discussed upthread and the consensus was that yes it would be unreasonable for a believer not to write something as part of an academic exercise.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

'Would it be ok for a Christian child to write 'I don't believe in Jesus' ?'

Yes, it would, if the context was the same as in this case –i.e. if the context was children being asked to write some statements and then identify them as being a fact, an opinion or a belief. The Christian child, as well as any other child in the class, would write that this was a belief.

It doesn't imply that the Christian child believes this. It implies that the Christian child knows that this is a belief.

[YoureBeingADick]

you can prove you believe in god by saying 'I believe in god'

otherwise you would be saying 'I believe that I believe in god'

although belief in god is not a permanent state so someone who did today, might not tomorrow so proving it with bits of paper it church attendance cant be depended on.

[Sirzy]

Facts are provable. Can you prove that you believe in god?
I can prove that I believe in God, I couldn't prove that God exists.

Just like for a child (and sorry for using the Santa comparison again) it is a fact that they believe in Santa, but you can't prove that he exists.

[Growlithe]

The pedants are imploding on this thread.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I would think that I believe in god could be belief or belief stated as fact.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I know Growlithe. It's doing my head in, but I can't keep away.

[YoureBeingADick]

so you mean when you say 'I believe in god' you are saying ' It is my belief that I believe in god'?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

No, I am making a statement of belief that cannot be proven. Therefore, it cannot be a fact.

I think.

[Sirzy]

Someone beliving in something is fact. it is the actual existance of that thing which is down to belief.

A Christian believes that god exists - that is a fact.

God exists - is a belief.

[Oscarandelliesmum]

We had a philosophy lecturer, first year uni, who made us debate whether it would be more morally justifiable to test new drugs on animals or orphans in a coma(!)
it got some of the people from the divinty department pretty angry . It can be tricky to seperate our beliefs from what we are debating if it us too emotive to us.

[Oscarandelliesmum]

I did enjoy reading this rather than attempting the dishes...fact. dirty dishes=evidence

[YoureBeingADick]

I agree sirzy.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Ta for that Sirzy.

[exoticfruits]

It gets away from the point that the statements were just that, statements, and had nothing to do with the person copying them down or reading them-they just had to categorise them.
You could equally write 'I am a Muslim' , 'I am an atheist'-for the exercise they do not in any way apply to you personally.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

Exactly, exotic.

[TigerseyeMum]

Some people with OCD would have a problem with writing things they emotionally objected to.

Thinking equals doing.

Writing makes you think something.

Therefore for certain emotionally loaded beliefs writing a statement on paper can be hard.

For example, think of someone (alive) whom you love. Then, write down on paper '[Name] will die today'. Can you do it? Some can, some can't. It's just an exercise to demonstrate how emotionally loaded sons statements can be which gives an insight into how it can be for someone with OCD.

I presume though your daughter doesn't have religious-based OCD?

[exoticfruits]

I am assuming that the lessons are compulsory? I would suggest that she drops them as soon as she is able as she appears to take it all so personally.