Puppy Aggression

[kurotora]

We recently adopted a 5 month old puppy from a reputable breeder. We had been assured by the breeder that the pup was a good temperament for our situation.

Within hours of arriving, pup had developed a lot of resource guarding behaviour, a few times now the pup has growled, barked and lunged at our child for walking within a few feet to pass her in the hallway. The pup tries to attack our cats despite being described as good with cats.

I know there’s an adjustment period but I’m very worried for safety at this point. I know issues can be worked on but I’m not sure I’m ready to take the risk where aggression is concerned.

Would you return to the breeder? Would you expect a refund?

So upset with this situation, we don’t know if we are being unreasonable here.

[Showmethefood]

Hi. Didn’t want to read and run. I do understand your concerns - I would be worried too.
When we got our pup, we’d only had her three days , when she suddenly went crazy at a workman who came into our house. Not aggressive but barking hysterically (and pretty much screaming). Took to trainers/behaviourists who diagnosed her with genetic nervousness 🤷‍♀️

We've had her a year now and tried to socialise her as much as possible. She has now stopped screaming, behaves much better with other dogs, but still is cautious of strangers and loud noises. We considered whether to return her or work with her and chose the latter, but had she shown what yours does the outcome may have been different! I suppose it’s what you feel is best for you and your family in regards to safety. How is pup now a few days have passed?

[powershowerforanhour]

Would you return to the breeder?
Yes
Would you expect a refund?
Yes- pup was not as described.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

She's 5 months old everything you describe takes time and training to come right and she is just a baby.
With a puppy you get everything in the first year from baby to teenager, right now you have an impulsive toddler who needs to be taught how to behave well.
It will take time and effort if you don't think you are up to this then return her so that she can go to someone who will make the investment.

[RomansTheyGoTheHouse]

A reputable breeder would have had a damn good reason for selling a five month old.

But everything you describe sounds like a puppy being a puppy. All of those things are things you have to work on training with.

Not every puppy will display them but many do and, with training, it's not indicative of the adult you'll end up with.

A good breeder will give you advice if you are worried. Or find a good local trainer who can support you through the training one to one if you are unsure.

[Newuser75]

Definitely return the puppy. Resource guarding can be a difficult thing to manage and train.

[powershowerforanhour]

"But everything you describe sounds like a puppy being a puppy."

Eh??? If I had a 5 month old pup in the vets lunging, growling and kennel guarding I'd think uh oh, it's wrong 'un OR its upbringing has had all sorts of wrongness in it. If you see that, sub 1 year old, the crystal ball very often shows a future crying owner a year or two down the line with a behavioural euthanasia on their hands.

[powershowerforanhour]

"We recently adopted a 5 month old puppy from a reputable breeder. "

Well, since you are talking about a refund, I assume you bought a puppy. Not adopted a puppy. Trading standards should apply, even if you got it cheap because it was already 5 months old and they couldn't shift it earlier/ it was returned by the first buyer.

Out of interest, what breed is it and what was the bitch's temperament like when you went to view and collect the pup? Did you see the sire? (I appreciate that's not always possible).

[kurotora]

It’s been a couple of days since my post. I’ve spoken with the breeder and was given recommendations to be more dominant and less soft. To stop the puppy going on the sofa and establish DD and cats as higher in the pack. I’m aware that all of this is highly outdated terminology.

Things have settled a bit but there are still signs of the behaviour - not any more growling or lunging but puppy is very anxious with belongings. We can’t do any chews eg pizzles as the pup will still get highly possessive with these. No progress with the cats really, she’s very highly charged to get at them and chase them.

I don’t want to say breed here as the dog world I’m aware is a small one, and the breeder is well known. I did meet mum, not dad, and grandparent. All I’ll say is this is a small non-terrier breed with no guarding background or disposition.

I oscillate between desperately wanting to persist and hopefully get through this, and worrying that I’m putting DD and my cats at risk because the behaviour is definitely still indicative that there’s an issue. Like things are bubbling barely beneath the surface. I am worried whether our family is the best place for working on this behaviour.

[ejsmith99]

@kurotora

It’s been a couple of days since my post. I’ve spoken with the breeder and was given recommendations to be more dominant and less soft. To stop the puppy going on the sofa and establish DD and cats as higher in the pack. I’m aware that all of this is highly outdated terminology.

Things have settled a bit but there are still signs of the behaviour - not any more growling or lunging but puppy is very anxious with belongings. We can’t do any chews eg pizzles as the pup will still get highly possessive with these. No progress with the cats really, she’s very highly charged to get at them and chase them.

I don’t want to say breed here as the dog world I’m aware is a small one, and the breeder is well known. I did meet mum, not dad, and grandparent. All I’ll say is this is a small non-terrier breed with no guarding background or disposition.

I oscillate between desperately wanting to persist and hopefully get through this, and worrying that I’m putting DD and my cats at risk because the behaviour is definitely still indicative that there’s an issue. Like things are bubbling barely beneath the surface. I am worried whether our family is the best place for working on this behaviour.

OK, well up until then I was "give it time". If this was how she was "training" the dog up until then though you have a LOT of work to do to establish trust before you can undo bad habits and pretty soon hormones will kick in. At the root of most resource guarding tends to be a lot of anxiety

To rule out the "what ifs" I would be inclined to get a behaviourist in for an assessment. That is likely to be covered under the insurance she came with. Look for PPG, APDT or IMDT qualifications.

As to whether you will get your money back, you need to read your puppy contract. Like you say though, the dog world is small, so you can lay on the "obviously with you being such a renowned responsible breeder you will want the best..." arguments in any discussions

It isn't unresolvable, but it will need a lot of management to keep everyone safe

[Devilshands]

It’s been a couple of days since my post. I’ve spoken with the breeder and was given recommendations to be more dominant and less soft. To stop the puppy going on the sofa and establish DD and cats as higher in the pack. I’m aware that all of this is highly outdated terminology. 

The terminology might be outdated, but the principles aren't. The breeder is 100% right.

At five months, puppies are at their most twatty. They're pushing boundaries. They have their adult teeth (and are growing) but puppy brains. Shoving a high value treat in front of a puppy (I am assuming to distract it so you don't need to give it attention/monitor it to make sure it's not getting up to no good) is a basic no-no of dog ownership. Up until about 12 months, most puppies need constant supervision and good boundaries. No going on the sofa. No jumping up. No being allowed to tug on leads. No high-value treats. No being picked up and cuddled like a child. No being fed human food from the table. Being gentle corrected when they make mistakes. Learning to 'relinquish' toys and treats as necessary.

And, of course the puppy is anxious. It missed it's crucial socialisation period for bedding into a new family - then after five months (three months after all it's litter mates went) it was dumped into a new home. Five months is prime behavioural issue time tbh so this was almost certainly be sound to happen.

Quite frankly, the breeder can't be that reputable. Any good breeder worth their salt would have warned you about possibilities like this and/or thoroughly vetted you to make sure you could cope with this likely behaviour.

Gently, OP, I don't think you seem to know enough about dogs to manage this. So return the puppy. Or give it to a breed-specific rescue.

[Ylvamoon]

@powershowerforanhour

Would you return to the breeder?
Yes
Would you expect a refund?
Yes- pup was not as described.

You are definitely in the market for a stuffed toy!

@kurotora have you done some professional training with a trainer or behaviourist?
If you are a first time dog owner, I would highly recommend this. Get to understand your dog and its nature.

Also, all dogs big or small are predators. As such, they will hunt and guard their prey.
You need to re direct this behaviour like your breeder said.
I find teaching my dogs tricks always helpful. It builds trust and can develop that incredible bond people have with their dogs.
Once a command is masterd, get your DD to do it. Good starting point is the usual sit, down paw... and maybe fetch / drop later. How to YouTube videos are great for this.

[Newuser75]

This is a potentially serious problem in a young dog who lives in a house with children. How old are the children? Do they often have friends around? If young then I'd definitely return the puppy. If older then it may be worth persevering with behavioural help from a qualified behaviourist used to dealing with resource guarding. Look at APBC qualified people.


This could potentially be a problem that needs to be managed forever rather than cured completely. I'd think very carefully about the best option here.

[powershowerforanhour]

"You are definitely in the market for a stuffed toy!"

No, just performed too many behavioural euthanasias in 20 years in vet practice to want to buy in trouble especially into a house with children.

[Ylvamoon]

@powershowerforanhour

"You are definitely in the market for a stuffed toy!"

No, just performed too many behavioural euthanasias in 20 years in vet practice to want to buy in trouble especially into a house with children.

Or it's incompetent human beings that go for the cutest look without considering the dogs needs.
I own one that's been bought because of cuteness... lots of problems when I got her at 6 months. Now at 3 a lovely little dog- still some issues but nothing to worry about. All I did was homing in on the dogs natural instincts.
but I agree, poor breeding is a huge issue when it comes to dogs health and temperament

[Setyoufree]

Why did the breeder still have a puppy at 5 months? Normally they'd all be homed and gone by 8/10 weeks.

Anyway, it sounds like you urgently need to start working 1:1 with a reputable trainer. On a practical note I'd put up stairgates so you can separate puppy and cats and they can then meet on their own terms. My puppy is almost 1 and only now is she getting there on being able to calm herself enough not to lunge at the cat.

I'm not a trainer or behaviourist but I'd worry about growling at children, that's not normal puppy behaviour in my experience.

You might get more help if you get this moved to the dog house board. But my advice is urgently work very intensively with a trainer, or return to breeder. It sounds like a dog that needs a very experienced owner.

[Setyoufree]

One more thought - if the puppy has a chew, why is resource guarding manifesting? Who's approaching/annoying the dog when they're having their chew?

Is the puppy crate trained? We used to send ours to her crate to have a chew toy or bone, that way she knew that was her safe space where noone will touch her or annoy her while she's having some down time.

[kurotora]

There are a lot of assumptions on this thread about my choices.

So to try and address:
I'm an experienced owner of various large breed dogs. My last dog died a few years ago and I wasn't in the situation to own another dog until now.
We bought from a successful show breeder, and I spent the last 6 months researching breeds. She was not bought for cuteness but as the best chance of working well with our family and routines.
We have been training a little every day since day 2. Pup knows sit, lay down, stay, leave it. The breeder has said to stop doing this, but it seems to settle pup's anxiety when she has something to focus on, so we are still doing 5 minutes twice a day.
She has been taught not to jump on the sofa and working on not jumping up on people, she's good at not jumping on me or my husband but still working with my daughter.
We had a stair gate prepared since before pup arrived.
Chews have been provided for teething - not to distract pup so we don't have to pay attention to her. She is actually very self contained and easy this way compared to other the pups I've raised or known.
No one is bothering or approaching the pup when she has e.g. a chew. She was in the lounge and DD tried to walk past her, about 1 metre away. DD has been strictly taught how to interact with animals since she was still a baby.
Pup is crate trained, but will not stay in the crate with a chew, as I've tried to encourage that. There's a lot of anxiety where she has to see everywhere and watch all her "things".
We have a behaviourist booked for next week to help us work on things.

An issue we have at the moment is identifying what the best drives are for the pup. She is not very food, play or praise motivated but hoping that one or more will change as she settles to give more opportunities for positive reinforcement.

I concede my OP was a bit vague, as I was both upset and didn't want to sound like a know-it-all. I most definitely do not know everything, and I do know a plan to work on this, but the environment I live in isn't quite as good for working on behavioural issues as it was at one point. We had very much wanted to go for a well bred pup to minimise the chance of starting with tough issues, and the breeder assured us that this pup was a good choice for this, despite her age.