Please help.

[enlightened24]

I am absolutely at capacity with my 6 month old puppy and fear it is going to end up with him being rehomed. He is adequately exercised and socialised (he is walked at least twice a day and is a mix of on / off lead), we have taken him to puppy training (he is making slow progress) and he goes to a dog day care once a week where he plays with other dogs well. He is so, so, so greedy and destructive though it is ruining our home and family life.
He jumps up at the dining table and work tops for food. I either ignore him til he gets down then praise the down, or he is removed for his safety, but always comes back for more. We give him treats while we're eating and he demolishes them in seconds then comes to us, or he leaves them, and goes to them after we have finished eating. My son can't eat anything unless he has sat at the table with his plate in the middle of the table, and I or my husband have to remove the dog, because he jumps to grab food out of his mouth or hands. He goes in the bin and if we aren't quick enough he gets something (chocolate, a raw potato, onion and a used panty liner to name a few).
We are trying to teach the leave it command by hiding food under out feet or in our hands but he starts to claw or nip at us in frustration. We then tried it with boring objects like toilet roll holders etc and he just grabs things and hides them (he will also snarl and go for you if you try take something off him). When he is frustrated he snarls at you. He bounces all over my son and when I have to physically separate them, he snaps at me.
We have toys / mats/ blankets etc for him to play with but he isn't interested. He has destroyed my sons teddies / toys / stationery / books / clothes. Inevitably, we have things in reach and don't have the means to remove every single item we own to a different location and equally I cannot watch him every second of the day. I am drained.
I honestly don't feel like this behaviour is normal or is a reflection of how we look after him. He is barely left, he is only crated at night time, we walk him, play with him, train him but he is just so unruly. He has been expelled from one day care, and we are on the 2nd groomer already who told us he needs to learn some discipline. This is hurtful to hear because it suggests we aren't trying with him and let him do what he wants.
Does anyone in the know have some advice? Words of wisdom? I have never felt so down.

[DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira]

That's really hard, op. What breed is he?

[enlightened24]

@DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira

That's really hard, op. What breed is he?

He is a cockapoo. I am in tears or close to tears daily.

[Mrsttcno1]

How much sleep is he getting during the day OP?

[enlightened24]

@Mrsttcno1

How much sleep is he getting during the day OP?

Roughly 4-6 hours but in chunks. He is only left on a Tuesday for 4 hours and he sleeps (to my knowledge) in his crate until I get home. The rest of the week we are in the house so he snoozes but won't go in his crate if we are at home so I don't think its is particularly restful sleep.
At the weekend he has a few hours when we are out and about here and there undisturbed.

[DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira]

So he's a mix of two stubborn, intelligent breeds. Mixing established breeds like this cam lead to all sorts of issues.

I've had poodles - they're wonderful, incredible dogs but incredibly intelligent and can bring stubborn.

Cockers will come with traits that make them good working dogs.

I've had a dog that was expelled from training class and chewed up anything he could get his paws on, it was very hard. I'm not up to speed with the latest training techniques as it's been a long time since I've had a puppy but a few thoughts:

Keep him out the room while eating. Never give dogs treats while eating, especially from the table. This only teaches them that they're allowed what you're having. Never give them anything from your plate - leftovers or post human-meal treats go in their food bowl.

I don't really agree with crating (person choice) but if there isn't a room you can safely leave him while you eat, put him in his crate with a Kong stuffed with something edible.

Toys that encourage slow eating are helpful & ones that mean he has to work to get the treats out of them.

[DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira]

Also, was he initially responsive to training but his behaviour has gone backwards?

[MamaWillYouBuyMeAWillYouBuyMeABanana]

When my pup was that age I crated her during our mealtimes so she slept while we ate.

It's a very difficult age though, I was on the verge of giving up too, but managed to pull through and now she is an absolute joy at 10 months old. It did involve hours of training per day, but it's paid off.

[Mrsttcno1]

@enlightened24

Roughly 4-6 hours but in chunks. He is only left on a Tuesday for 4 hours and he sleeps (to my knowledge) in his crate until I get home. The rest of the week we are in the house so he snoozes but won't go in his crate if we are at home so I don't think its is particularly restful sleep.
At the weekend he has a few hours when we are out and about here and there undisturbed.

That’s the first obvious thing I’d say, he needs more sleep. If he’s not able to settle when you are all at home then you need to go back to basics with crate training to enforce naps, he NEEDS sleep. Lots of these behaviours especially the destructive ones are almost certainly caused by overtiredness. If anything you may be doing too much by way of exercise/toys/stimulation, at 6 months old his walks should only be around 30 mins at a time, 14-16 hours of the day minimum should be sleep.

If you don’t want to crate for naps you need to teach him to “settle”, and teach a “place” command- two of the most important commands we taught our dog- and once perfected can be used anywhere.

Cockapoo’s I think have a reputation for being an “easy” dog when actually, cockers are working dogs. They are high energy and can be crazy! We have a Labrador and totally understand the frustration but genuinely the trick is just to be consistent, be strict, get a trainer in to give you some advice if needed.

You will probably find that for his age, you’re doing too much/he’s doing too much, leading to overtiredness and bad behaviour. Not your fault as people do tend to think “ah crazy dog, I’ll do a big long walk/run his energy out”, it doesn’t work like that. Less is more and mental stimulation/enrichment & training will calm him a lot more than a 3 hour walk x

[enlightened24]

@DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira

So he's a mix of two stubborn, intelligent breeds. Mixing established breeds like this cam lead to all sorts of issues.

I've had poodles - they're wonderful, incredible dogs but incredibly intelligent and can bring stubborn.

Cockers will come with traits that make them good working dogs.

I've had a dog that was expelled from training class and chewed up anything he could get his paws on, it was very hard. I'm not up to speed with the latest training techniques as it's been a long time since I've had a puppy but a few thoughts:

Keep him out the room while eating. Never give dogs treats while eating, especially from the table. This only teaches them that they're allowed what you're having. Never give them anything from your plate - leftovers or post human-meal treats go in their food bowl.

I don't really agree with crating (person choice) but if there isn't a room you can safely leave him while you eat, put him in his crate with a Kong stuffed with something edible.

Toys that encourage slow eating are helpful & ones that mean he has to work to get the treats out of them.

Thank you.

In terms of his crate, he is only crated at night (he happily goes in and sleeps a good 10 hours or so) or if we are not physically in the house with him and in that case we ensure he is fed, watered, exercised and tired before he goes in. We don't crate in the day time when we are at home but then he gets into all sorts of mischief.
There were other cockapoos at the training and they were totally different, no where near as hyper or disruptive, so it's a Russian roulette isn't it. And assuming a cockapoo would be a good fit for my family from research online was naive on my part. A lot of people have said they can be a nightmare which isn't at all the vibe I got before we got him. I guess you live and learn. I don't blame him for how he is, I know he didn't ask to be bred, but I don't think we are getting back what we are putting in either and he is behaving in my view like a dog that is neglected / not stimulated. Thanks for your response.

[DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira]

Sorry for multiple posts, I kept forgetting what you wrote in your first and I'm reflecting on it more now...

• The destruction of toys suggests he's not getting enough mental stimulation. You need to play regularly as well as train and have games which mean he has to think.

• consider neutering if you haven't already

• what do you feed him? Worth considering whether he's getting hungry and needs food with a higher nutritional content

My first poodle was very hard to train, he was very very clever and looking back I didn't have a clue. I remember how frustrating it was. But it's frustrating for him too. Consistency was the key.

[enlightened24]

@Mrsttcno1

That’s the first obvious thing I’d say, he needs more sleep. If he’s not able to settle when you are all at home then you need to go back to basics with crate training to enforce naps, he NEEDS sleep. Lots of these behaviours especially the destructive ones are almost certainly caused by overtiredness. If anything you may be doing too much by way of exercise/toys/stimulation, at 6 months old his walks should only be around 30 mins at a time, 14-16 hours of the day minimum should be sleep.

If you don’t want to crate for naps you need to teach him to “settle”, and teach a “place” command- two of the most important commands we taught our dog- and once perfected can be used anywhere.

Cockapoo’s I think have a reputation for being an “easy” dog when actually, cockers are working dogs. They are high energy and can be crazy! We have a Labrador and totally understand the frustration but genuinely the trick is just to be consistent, be strict, get a trainer in to give you some advice if needed.

You will probably find that for his age, you’re doing too much/he’s doing too much, leading to overtiredness and bad behaviour. Not your fault as people do tend to think “ah crazy dog, I’ll do a big long walk/run his energy out”, it doesn’t work like that. Less is more and mental stimulation/enrichment & training will calm him a lot more than a 3 hour walk x

Thank you.
He sleeps a solid 10 hours at night but definitely hit and miss in the day. At the moment my home office is in the living room and so is his crate, so I might (as much as I don't want to), work upstairs in the bedroom so he can be left downstairs undisturbed to sleep. 100%, if you research a cockapoo it tells you how good they are for families, easy to train etc. I have never experienced anything like him!! We have had dogs before but this is way, way out of our comfort zone and yes also right, we think if we run him ragged he will tire out. We have tried hiding treats too for him to find but if he can't get to it in 3 seconds flat he gets really frustrated and starts going beserk. He has a face like butter wouldn't melt. I am stopped on walks all the time for people to paw all over him and tell him how gorgeous he is, while I stand there screaming internally that he is literally the devil 😂I do know it isn't his fault, he didn't ask to be bred, but I did also believe that what we put in, we would get back. I will keep up with the training, thank you xx

[enlightened24]

@DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira

Sorry for multiple posts, I kept forgetting what you wrote in your first and I'm reflecting on it more now...

• The destruction of toys suggests he's not getting enough mental stimulation. You need to play regularly as well as train and have games which mean he has to think.

• consider neutering if you haven't already

• what do you feed him? Worth considering whether he's getting hungry and needs food with a higher nutritional content

My first poodle was very hard to train, he was very very clever and looking back I didn't have a clue. I remember how frustrating it was. But it's frustrating for him too. Consistency was the key. Edited

He is on royal canin puppy kibble and then has bits of cheese / meat / fruit and veg through the day. He is big for his age (height and weight wise, much bigger than average). He also has dog chews like beef trachae, rabbit / pig ears. The vet has advised against neutering until he is 12 months old.

I will start incorporating some brain training and see if that helps settle him down.

Thank you for your help!

[DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira]

Does he get distracted by other dogs in training class?

Mine did, just wanted to play with them.

Initially, it might be worth organising 1-on-1 training with a qualified trainer to get the basics in place without distractions.

Don't forget, poodles are working dogs too (though no longer used as such in the uk), they were the original water retrievers so you have a dog who is a mix of 2 high energy dogs with high intelligence who needs clear rules & boundaries.

He will be the lovely dog you thought you were getting, you're just talking different languages at the moment.

[MontyDonsBlueScarf]

OP, it sounds as if you're trying hard to do all the right things but it also sounds as if you might have picked up some impractical or conflicting advice somewhere along the line.

First things first. You need to make it impossible for him to practise the behaviour you don't like. That doesn't necessarily mean keeping him in his crate but it might mean getting a playpen that you can put him in at mealtimes. This isn't permanent, it just buys you some time to get his behaviour sorted. By all means give him something nice while he's in there but make him work for it, so scatter treats on an old tea towel, roll it up and tie a loose knot in it and let him tease them out, instead of just giving them to him.

Then you need a home visit from a behaviourist or a reputable trainer who will advise on exercise, sleep, stimulation, management and training that will work in your circumstances. This is definitely fixable but you need consistency and a clear plan that everyone can follow.

[enlightened24]

@MamaWillYouBuyMeAWillYouBuyMeABanana

When my pup was that age I crated her during our mealtimes so she slept while we ate.

It's a very difficult age though, I was on the verge of giving up too, but managed to pull through and now she is an absolute joy at 10 months old. It did involve hours of training per day, but it's paid off.

Thank you. He gets so frustrated with training, then we do, and probably focus too much on exercise and not enough on training. His behaviour is sending me West though so I do need to keep trying other things as I don't want to rehome him at all, but I know I can't sustain this.

I am glad you came through the other side!

[DoIdriveaVauxhallZafira]

I would stop with the tidbits unless they're being given during training or at a particular time every day. Eg every evening at 7pm.

Otherwise he'll think they're always available on demand, he needs a clear routine with food. I suspect he's getting confused between HIS food and your food which is leading to poor behaviour when you eat.

Avoid giving human food for now and keep him out of the room while you eat - no more food from the table or your plates. Only in his bowl (unless giving a yreat in training).

[enlightened24]

@MontyDonsBlueScarf

OP, it sounds as if you're trying hard to do all the right things but it also sounds as if you might have picked up some impractical or conflicting advice somewhere along the line.

First things first. You need to make it impossible for him to practise the behaviour you don't like. That doesn't necessarily mean keeping him in his crate but it might mean getting a playpen that you can put him in at mealtimes. This isn't permanent, it just buys you some time to get his behaviour sorted. By all means give him something nice while he's in there but make him work for it, so scatter treats on an old tea towel, roll it up and tie a loose knot in it and let him tease them out, instead of just giving them to him.

Then you need a home visit from a behaviourist or a reputable trainer who will advise on exercise, sleep, stimulation, management and training that will work in your circumstances. This is definitely fixable but you need consistency and a clear plan that everyone can follow.

It is very much like parenting, so, so, so much advise out there and no-one ever agrees on what is best practice. We have had a trainer at the house who told us totally different things to the puppy training woman, then my own research brings up other things and it's a bloody minefield if you don't know what you're doing!

Thanks re the tips, I will look into the play pen. We did have one when he was teeny teeny and he escaped it mutiple times but in hindesight I don't think it was the best quality.

[MamaWillYouBuyMeAWillYouBuyMeABanana]

@enlightened24

Thank you. He gets so frustrated with training, then we do, and probably focus too much on exercise and not enough on training. His behaviour is sending me West though so I do need to keep trying other things as I don't want to rehome him at all, but I know I can't sustain this.

I am glad you came through the other side!

You will too, its a notoriously difficult age, in fact I bumped into a 6 month old dog in the park yesterday with an exasperated owner at the end of their tether. Most dog owners have been there.

There are quite a few online dog training sites you can sign up to, I paid £11.99 a month for the one I decided to fo for, stuck with them for 3 months, and found the advice invaluable (I went with someone who used the same sort of techniques as my rl dog trainer, so do shop about) and then didn't need it anymore.

Try changing the treats around as well, find something that your dog absolutely loves, it's liver in this house, so I spend ages cooking and chopping liver up per week, but it made a massive difference to training.

[WhatWouldBethDo]

We have a 6 month old Cocker and have baby gates on all the doors downstairs, which really helps. Her behaviour was heading in the same direction as you're describing and we realised sshe needed much more sleep tha she was getting, so we started enforcing it and her behaviour improved right away. She now has 2 hour sleeps in her crate, but one of us has to be in the room too for her to settle this long which is a pain in the arse. But it definitely pays off

The Cocker Academy on Facebook is great, the owner Emma runs free online 'challenges' now and again and talks about the behaviour behind working breeds, including resource guarding which Cockers/Cocker crosses can be prone to

I've also found this video very helpful, he explains how it's not all about physical exercise, but mental too and meeting dogs' needs. Our Cocker loves to learn basic tricks and can now be distracted by giving her the command for one, as she goes in to 'working mode' and her focus shifts to the trick from whatever naughty thing she was about to do!

And just to add, in case I'm making this all sound easy and perfect, it is definitely not! We are exhausted and have days where we really really struggle, and ours has problems with separation anxiety and still won't settle by herself at all. Puppies are such hard work, but things will hopefully start improving as they get older (fingers crossed!)

[Toadonaroll]

I know little about dogs but know we have a local trainer who is really professional, has lots of qualifications and specialises in 1 to 1 training of tricky dogs. Hopefully there will be someone similar near you.

[MontyDonsBlueScarf]

@enlightened24

It is very much like parenting, so, so, so much advise out there and no-one ever agrees on what is best practice. We have had a trainer at the house who told us totally different things to the puppy training woman, then my own research brings up other things and it's a bloody minefield if you don't know what you're doing!

Thanks re the tips, I will look into the play pen. We did have one when he was teeny teeny and he escaped it mutiple times but in hindesight I don't think it was the best quality.

Got it in one, I think you're suffering from information overload which is why I suggested getting someone reputable to give you a clear path to follow. Look for APDT or APBC qualifications, this is not to say that anyone without them isn't good but anyone with them will definitely be worth approaching.