I think my dog has ruined his last chance :(

[riseshine]

I'm in a horrible situation. I've been in hospital for nearly 2 weeks recovering from pneumonia and sepsis.

3 days ago our dog, a westie, bit my daughter badly enough on her hand that she has had to have treatment at hospital.

It's been so awful when I'm stuck in hospital and I can't be with her to comfort her or make rational decision about what to do.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time, 6 months ago he bit my youngest daughters hand. And has snapped at us all on a few occasions.

He is a lovely dog, but on his terms, he is getting progressively more grumpy and often growls if you get too close if he's not in the mood etc

Although I'm devastated I feel like it would be irresponsible to not find a new home for him - my husband has dealt with the whole situation badly, blaming my daughter and saying that we just have to stay out of his way.

Please help me make sense of what to do :(

[BumOfMoys]

I would muzzle him (soft mesh one) and start serious training.

A lot of what jimmychoo has said is relevant because it keeps your dog in his place.

You need to show your dog he's not the boss and he cannot do what he wants.

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

Well, tbf, teeth taken out is preferable to putting down!! But rehoming in a quieter (no kids) environment sounds best.

[BumOfMoys]

Oh and I definitely wouldn't be tempting him back in the house with a treat. You're basically telling him 'good boy' for running out

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

Ignore everything JimmyChoos has said. It is all outdated and disproven nonsense.

I don't think it's nonsense, a dog needs to know it's place in the pecking order ie. right at the bottom below the cat

[lucy101101]

Having grown up with a father who let a dog bite more than one child, I would PTS without any qualms at all. It doesn't sound like you are well enough to take anything else on including retraining.

[LilCamper]

Dogs are not trying to take over the world and they know we are a different species. Talk of pecking orders, dominance and the like is a load of old tripe!

He actually sounds scared and confused, not that he wants to steal the cashpoint card and become head of the family.

[NNChangeAgain]

I definitely wouldn't be tempting him back in the house with a treat. You're basically telling him 'good boy' for running out

Um, no. by using a treat to lure the dog back in, you are rewarding the behaviour "coming back into the house".

The dog has already received a "reward" for escaping - that is, he gained his freedom. You can't undo that once it has happened - but you can take steps to prevent it happening (like the Op's DP says, preventing the dog escaping in the first place a good way to avoid reinforcing the behaviour).

OP I think your little dog would benefit from a quieter, calmer household where he can mooch in peace - but those homes are hard to come by, and there are many, many older dogs needing such homes. If you can't "train" your DC's to accommodate your older dogs needs, then I think you may have to be realistic and consider euthanasia in order to alleviate the current distress he is experiencing while living with you. Do not underestimate the psychological impact on a dog of living in an unsuitable home.

[riseshine]

Because I am so fragile it's all feeling like too much - I feel like I need someone else to take this over and just get it sorted out. I'm not in a position to get him to vets being stuck in hospital, my DH works away mon - fri and we're already heavily relying on favours getting the kids sorted out day to day x

[BumOfMoys]

I'm not wrong nnchange.

If your DC ran out of the house when they weren't supposed to would you wave a milky bar in front of them to get them back in the house?

And if your dog isn't getting enough exercise he will be grumpy op. Your dh is away mon-fri so he isn't taking much of the responsibility here. I think I'd be looking to re train your dog tbh but I know that's hard when you're so poorly.

[BertrandRussell]

I wish people would stop behaving as if being PTS is the worst thing that can happen to an animal.

[riseshine]

He gets a walk every day and longer ones at weekend x

[froglou]

OP has actually stated that the dog sometimes growls when people get too close and hasn't said that there was no growling before the bite, and that she has also said she thinks the dog would be happier in a quieter home. I'm not saying they should keep the dog as it's obviously quite stressful for both dog and owner in the current situation. As for "passing on the problem," there are lots of people that rehome dogs that aren't suitable to be around children, and if you're rehoming responsibly the new owners (or rescue centre) will be fully aware of the dogs temperament and needs. As for the meantime while they're trying to find somewhere to take the dog in, buy a muzzle!

[Patriciathestripper1]

froglou my friends took on a rescue stringer spaniel who was for re homing to a couple without children. Things went great for 13 months until they were in countryside playing fetch with the dog and it ran up and out of the blue bit a toddler (who was walking with her parents ) in the face. Totally unprevoked. They were mortified and dog was put down the next day. Why would anyone want that to happen? The dog has a history of it.

[Megainstant]

I agree with Bertrand. PTS is a perfectly reasonable solution and vets would agree.

[amethyst74]

I don't think any of us here on MN have enough of an insight to know what should happen to this dog, but can I suggest getting in touch with one of the several Westie-specific rescues? (Just Google and you'll find them). This one, for instance, states that it does take in dogs who have bitten in the past: www.westiesinneed.co.uk/dogs-for-adoption.php
I am sure you or your partner will be able to talk things through with them and find out if rehoming via a rescue is an option.

[Wolfiefan]

He may be being walked but is he being left home alone all day?

[GinIsIn]

I can see how grabbing the collar might provoke a warning nip for example, but for a tiny dog like a westie to bite with enough force to require hospital treatment, a lot of force and aggression has gone into that bite. And if he's also bitten your other DD completely unprovoked and in separate circumstances, it doesn't seem like he is responding to a specific trigger.

I would see the vet to discuss options, and in all honesty probably PTS. I think saying the dog needs to be in a child free home is a red herring - 17 is not a small child and he bit her too so clearly has no qualms about also biting adults.

[Branleuse]

whether hes being left at home sometimes or not, might make a dog bored, but its not a reason for biting. Its completely beside the point.
If a dog has bitten and hospitalised, then just trying to walk your dog more and give it more company is not goin to be the answer

[tabulahrasa]

"I would consider rehoming or pts before spending a fortune on some ridiculous smoke and mirrors bollocks."

What do you think behaviourists do?... There's no smoke or mirrors, it's not some weird woo magic thing.

OP, this isn't a new issue, you're clearly not going to manage it by yourself - you need to either get in a professional or consider what you're going to do with your dog do that it's no longer in your home.

Rehoming could be an option, but, what you do need to think about is that while rescues may be willing to take him in, that doesn't mean that they'll be able to find him a home. He's an older dog with a serious bite history...it may well be better for him to be PTS by you than spend the rest of his life in a rescue or even worse bounced around by people who also can't manage him.

[CatchingBabies]

You can't rehome a dog that bites, that's really irresponsible!

Your 17 year old isn't really a child either so you can't even say a child free home would be suited. He bites adults as well.

You need to either get a behaviourist and work on the problem or put to sleep.

[Megainstant]

How would a behaviourist - sorry, a PROFESSIONAL - tackle this then?

[mudandmayhem01]

A 17 year old isn't a child, this is a dog that bites children and adults. Its not safe, nobody lives in a world completely isolated from children. One of my dogs bit my son, me and then my dh ( in the face) he accidently lent over him. Ok maybe he shouldn't have done that but you cant guarantee that nobody ever does something unpredictable around a dog. We had our beautiful, generally loving dog pts the next day. I wish I had done it the first time he bit my son.

[Blackbird82]

Has he always been like this or have you seen a gradual decline in his behaviour?

To be honest it's hard to give advice without seeing the dog, his triggers, household environment etc. However I would say that this dog needs very careful management going forward and everyone in the household needs to be committed to following a plan.

Personally I don't think conventional training will work. You will simply be micromanaging your interactions with him to try and prevent future incidents. This will be stressful for you and adding kids into the mix I'm not sure if it's realistic.

So, with that in mind it's certainly appropriate to PTS. Or you could find a good behaviourist to help you. Please feel free to PM me, I know a very good one and I'm a very experienced dog owner myself. There are plenty of crap behaviourists/trainers out there so it's a good idea to go on a personal recommendation.

[NNChangeAgain]

How would a behaviourist - sorry, a PROFESSIONAL hmm - tackle this then?

Behaviourists are experts in the way that people interact with dogs. And give advice to people on how changes to their behaviour can influence the way the dog reacts.

Things like if you stand over a dog and stare at them, then the dog can feel threatened, and the dog behaves in a way that is completely predictable for a threatened dog. So a behaviourist will advice an owner not to stand over and stare at a dog if the dogs natural behavior in that situation is undesirable.

[tabulahrasa]

"How would a behaviourist - sorry, a PROFESSIONAL hmm - tackle this then?"

That'd depend on what's triggering the behaviour.

They come out, assess the dog (and owner) and draft up a training plan to tackle the problem behaviour.