It’s licence not license!

[Heather37231]

I’m so fed up with seeing British people use “license” for driving etc. It’s rife. Nobody seems to realise that’s the US spelling. I blame Olivia Rodrigo.

Got this from Nat West today (you don’t get more British than Nat West).

[GetWhatYouWant]

I agree. Is it an Americanism or are they just terrible at spelling? I'm always shocked how frequently organisations use the wrong spelling for words, when presumably what they're writing goes through several checks before being released.
In the UK it's very useful to remember the difference between advise and advice if you encounter problems in remembering which spelling is for the noun and the verb.

[LifeExperience]

That's the way it's spelled in the US.

[GetWhatYouWant]

But if it's in a British document it should be spelled the British way of course!

[WandaWonder]

Isn't one a noun and one a verb?

[OutingPosts]

@WandaWonder yes, the same with practice and practise

[elp30]

@OutingPosts

In the US, we never use "practise". The noun and the verb are the same, "practice".

[Meadowfinch]

There's an easy way to remember which is the verb and which is the noun.

Think of 'advise' the verb has an s at the end. And 'advice' the noun has a c at the end.

Then apply the same to licence/license.

[GetWhatYouWant]

@elp30

@OutingPosts

In the US, we never use "practise". The noun and the verb are the same, "practice".

But the OP is about British banking documents so the spelling should be British, not American.

[OhcantthInkofaname]

@GetWhatYouWant

But the OP is about British banking documents so the spelling should be British, not American.

Not when so many banks are internationally based. More banks than not would be using the US spelling simply because of population base. There are 330 plus million people in the United States.

[BobnLen]

This annoys me on the many TV licence threads that pop up

[Heather37231]

@LifeExperience

That's the way it's spelled in the US.

Yes. That’s my point!

[Heather37231]

@OhcantthInkofaname

Not when so many banks are internationally based. More banks than not would be using the US spelling simply because of population base. There are 330 plus million people in the United States.

Wow. Did you not read the OP at all?

[clarrylove]

At least they didn't use 'driver's license'. Another pet peeve.

[Heather37231]

@clarrylove

At least they didn't use 'driver's license'. Another pet peeve.

Agreed!

[Bluevelvetsofa]

I agree with you and I think it matters. I accept that I’m probably in a minority though.

[Heather37231]

It’s an interesting question, when looked at more broadly. Should it really matter if US spellings are adopted widely in the UK?

After all, language evolves and it’s fine, really, that certain expressions that were once seen as very American have been adopted here, for example “regular” meaning “standard size/medium” or normal. Or “allowance” instead of pocket money. We’ve been exposed to US culture for decades via films (which we now mostly call “movies”!) and TV (think how we talk now about “seasons” rather than “series”.)

So how does US spelling fit into that? I think that young people are seeing a lot more written US material than they used to, because of captions on TikToks etc, or links to US websites.

Should teachers teach that both “defence” and “defense” or “color” and “colour” are acceptable in writing produced by a British person, as long as the writer picks one and uses it consistently? I work in law and would find it very odd indeed if an English judge suddenly started writing “defense” in a judgment. But we already have it with things like “s” and “z” being seen and more or less interchangeable (“organisation” vs “organization”). Some of the American spellings are, of course, just antiquated British English ones anyway and I think we accept z in that context already because it used to be used here.

I am not anti-American and I can’t quite work out where my deep-rooted objection to our adopting their spellings comes from. I think it is a case of us having rules and it being annoying that people are either forgetting them or deciding they don’t matter.But we don’t have an Académie that governs language like the French do, and the approach of the OED is to document language as it evolves, not prescribe it, so is there really such a thing as a spelling rule at all?

How do you even define whether writing should be British or American? Is it the nationality or residence of the author or the nationality of the audience? Audiences are indeed mostly global these days. What if an American working in a British university writes a report for the UK government? Will Nat West just say that their app was developed by American developers?

[GetWhatYouWant]

I don't think in Britain we should adopt American spellings. In UK schools pupils should be taught the correct British spellings eg "colour". Britain is a separate country, it's not a subset of America. We don't talk about sidewalks or faucets and just because people watch American social media doesn't mean that American usage should become standard here.
It's about audience I think. For example the NatWest document in the OP is directed at a British customer therefore should use British spellings. Likewise a report for the UK government written by a person working in a UK university should be in British English, irrespective of the nationality of the writer. It wouldn't be acceptable for such a report written by a French person to be written in French so it shouldn't be acceptable for it to be written in American English.
I think it helps to think of British and American English as two different languages, in that case it's easy to appreciate that the spellings should be different in the two countries. Also why should American spellings prevail? I can't see many Americans thinking it would be perfectly fine to be forced to change their spellings to the British way in America.

[Heather37231]

That is indeed my gut feeling too, but it’s interesting that so few people seem to share that view. Any time I point out “license” where it should be “licence” as it’s a UK context, most people just shrug and don’t care.

[coureur]

I'm pretty sure that British spellings will fade out of usage, or at least the American spellings will become accepted alongside them. Many of our new graduates at work use American spellings and pronunciations as standard. Most of them have had a very 'international' upbringing and the reality is that American English is now considered standard English worldwide and British English is very much a minority variant. I do wince internally when they say 'zee' instead of 'zed' and 'rout' instead of 'route', but actually it makes for easier communication with customers and colleagues for whom English is a second language and who are more accustomed to American usage.

[IamaRevenant]

I am a lawyer in the UK but work for a US-based company. We have to use US spellings in our contracts (including license) and it kills me inside every time.

[Topseyt123]

I agree with you. I've seen this so often recently and it irks me.

Licence as a noun is the British way of spelling it. License as a noun is the American way, I do believe. NatWest should certainly be using the correct British spelling. They are not an American bank.

The British do use the license spelling too, but only when using it as a verb - i.e. to license something or someone to do something.

I think I have got that right. I'm sure someone will let me know if I haven't. 🤣

[Heather37231]

@IamaRevenant

I am a lawyer in the UK but work for a US-based company. We have to use US spellings in our contracts (including license) and it kills me inside every time.

Presumably you’re working on agreements with E&W governing law and jurisdiction clauses? That would drive me mad too! I’d be tempted to lie that they were potentially unenforceable with American spellings in them 😀.

[Heather37231]

@Topseyt123

I agree with you. I've seen this so often recently and it irks me.

Licence as a noun is the British way of spelling it. License as a noun is the American way, I do believe. NatWest should certainly be using the correct British spelling. They are not an American bank.

The British do use the license spelling too, but only when using it as a verb - i.e. to license something or someone to do something.

I think I have got that right. I'm sure someone will let me know if I haven't. 🤣

You’re correct about the verb. I think that is why a lot of British people don’t realise that “license” as a noun is incorrect, because they do see the same word used in British English as a verb.

Amusingly though, it goes the other way with “practise” and “practice”. The Americans don’t distinguish between verb and noun so they say “practicing” when the UK English is “practising”. About 95% of British people write “practicing”. Including lawyers who actually have a “practising certificate” awarded by the English regulator.

[Topseyt123]

@coureur

I'm pretty sure that British spellings will fade out of usage, or at least the American spellings will become accepted alongside them. Many of our new graduates at work use American spellings and pronunciations as standard. Most of them have had a very 'international' upbringing and the reality is that American English is now considered standard English worldwide and British English is very much a minority variant. I do wince internally when they say 'zee' instead of 'zed' and 'rout' instead of 'route', but actually it makes for easier communication with customers and colleagues for whom English is a second language and who are more accustomed to American usage.

One example where the American spelling took over from the British one a long time ago is jail/gaol.

The original British spelling was gaol, but that has now fallen largely into disuse. I'm British, and I personally prefer to spell it jail. It makes more sense somehow and gaol seems ridiculous. Even my autocorrect doesn't recognise it and wants to change it to goal (like in football). 🤣

[BigFluffyHoodie]

Grr, yes. In the UK, licence is the noun, to license is the verb.