Anyone else find "pink princesses" ubiquity deeply disturbing?

[Annner]

Have a look at this

After years of wondering whether I do read into everything too much, this site is a breath of fresh air.

[Annner]

Maybe not - in isolation, but it's the whole package of our "offer" to our preschool girls, isn't it? As others have detailed, it's getting harder and harder to find things aimed at girls that do not focus on how they look, (should) want to look or behave. My problem is that they don't get sold a pamper party as part of a package encouraging physical activity, a bit of rough and tumble,or reading a book, but instead in a world in which being a princess is seen as aspirational. And it seems to be all or nothing. It's really hard to see a bit of glitter on your nails as a one-off in the deluge of other stuff.

None of the phenomena are in themselves offensive, in my opinion: it's just the lack of choice that is.

[KingCanuteIAm]

I don't know, I am just not convinced of your world view. As an example, parties we have had (for the dds) Go Cart Racing, Bouncy Castles, Trampolines and Picnic, Record a Rock Song (and make a DVD to go with it), Cinema party, Camping Party, Pamper Party, Dressing Up Party, Scuba Diving, Swimming Party, Ice Skating.

These were all parties that were aimed at girls, I don't think they have been particularly railroaded into anything too girly or gender specific.

Some children do not want a party with rough and tumble and I can't imagine any child wanting a party invloving reading a book Some children do want rough and ready parties though, like my dc, and we have had no problem finding a whole heep of options that fit with those criteria.

TBH I still think that the gender stereotyping you are seeing is only real if you allow it to be, if people stop buying playboy crap it will disappear. Maybe proactive consumerism is a better solution than "backlash"?

[19fran76]

By golly, I was that child. I was a freak for books .
Maybe less consumerism & more library visits is the solution Painting your nails is no kind of fun at all IMHO.

[choppychopster]

Does Playboy merchandise for children really exist? It's something that is always talked about, but I've never actually come across it.

[Mij]

I like the fact that someone has started the campaign just because I was so gobsmacked when I went to buy clothes for DD1 that I really could only get pink, blue or white/cream.

However, the pink fluffy thing is a symptom of an ongoing self-perpetuating loop between the marketeers and the consumers (parents and children). I had a moan at the ELC that blooming maracas, ffs, came in either pink or blue. Now who on earth needed to gender a musical instrument? When I asked, I was told that parents want that. Why do they want it? Because their little boys/girls want it. Why do their want it? Because they see it all around them, because other parents buy it for their kids, because demand has been created by aggressive marketing, but that in turn has been formed by consumer demand etc etc blah blah you see where all this is going...

But the marketing thing is much less to do with role models, and all to do with money. My DD doesn't get mistaken for a boy when she's at the top of a climbing frame designed for kids twice her age (and 3 times her size) by marketing gurus, she gets mistaken for a boy by other parents. She gets mistaken for a boy when wearing her red waterproofs and jumping in puddles because she's not wearing something pink and flowery. She's had toys taken off her at playgroup and told 'it's not a nice toy for a little girl, is it'. That's what bothers me, people, far more than the pink fluffy crap I can choose not be buy.

So I'm torn. I'll support the campaign because it's all there is, but I'm with Canute too on the 'if you've brought them up to have minds of their own they'll see through all the gender bollocks anyway' thing.

The answer to crap choice in shops, btw, is to go to nearly new sales - much better range of colours there .

[Annner]

KingCanuteIAm - you've clearly worked hard to ensure that your girls have a balanced perspective on life and a good balance of life experiences.

I have a DD who isn't terribly into rough and tumble, and a DS who is, but we're keen to give each of them the sort of opportunities nowadays associated with the opposite sex. Far too many people are not.

The problem is that people aren't stopping buying the Playboy crap. I saw that website as being part of proactive consumerism.

At base, I suppose, is that girls and boys in the UK tend on the whole to be less happy than children elsewhere. I still think that our society's need to push them into roles from an early age is part of the explanation why.

[pointydog]

choppy, where have you been?! It's not quite so popular now, but a couple of years ago you couldn't move in WH Smith's for Playboy stationery

[KingCanuteIAm]

Choppy, yes they do, including baby clothes I think.

Mij, years ago the ELC made a really big thing out of being non-gender specific, of not using genderising colours. Their displays were laid out in a mixed manner, boxes were not to carry certain pictures, ie girls on the iron box/boys on the bricks box.

Sadly it nearly finished them even back then parents did want gender specific toys, rightly or wrongly.

[KingCanuteIAm]

What one you basing that on? Children in the Uk tend to be less happy than children elsewhere?? Really?

No, I haven't worked particularly hard at all, they wanted, I found, same as most parents I think. I just listened to their tastes and added a little bit of adult sense to it, it is all out there and not particularly hidden IME.

[19fran76]

The campaign is precisely about the gender stereotyping you & your DD encounter whilst out & about as far as I can tell Mij Not the alleged consumer 'choice' debate, which is just another symptom of that same stereotyping. You're quite right that it is one self-perpetuating loop. It's the attitudes that feed that loop which need to be challenged.

[bruces]

WHY OH WHY do we need this site? my DD loves pink,Barbie and anything with a hint of sparkle,yet spent the day playing with her brothers and boy cousins playing power rangers,pirates and building with lego as long as we as parents give our children positive role models of both sexes i think they'll be ok

[choppychopster]

Have a nearly 3yo DD and seen all the hideous "Pampered Little Princess" and "Shopaholic" type clothes, but thought that Playboy stuff for kids and thongs for 5yo as an example of early sexualisation were something of a myth.

Not been to WH Smith in years though, so will bow to your superior knowledge.

[pointydog]

ah well, wait till your kid starts school

[choppychopster]

Eeek!

[KingCanuteIAm]

Choppy, this is quite cute for a 3yo

What makes it silly is, if the playboy bunny was just a bunny, it would be quite cute for a little girl. I suspect that is how they get so many people putting the stuff on their kids, the littlies stuff is cute and fairly inoffensive, then you are there, buying the brand. By the time they get to 6yo it is a little less cute and a little more offensive, but you don't notice because you have always bought it... by 11 they are wearing this, you can imagine what they are wearing by the time they are 15

[KingCanuteIAm]

Well, these are advertised under Clothes> Cute> Childrens> Thong Underwear.

The size chart says "all items are designed to fit juniors"

[19fran76]

I feel a bit ill now Canute. Boundaries of good taste have vanished, haven't they?

[KingCanuteIAm]

Yup, things like that are fairly vom inducing. The thing is, as with everything els, those things will only touch on your young children if you let them, if you don't buy it, they won't have it!

[choppychopster]

Yuck! They are truely horrible.

[EachPeachPearMum]

Maybe this thread should link in with Xenia's here...

[skramble]

Nothing wrong with a bit of pink, it is uplifting and there is a shade that suits everyone, even men can wear pink, shock horror.

[Mij]

Canute, I didn't know that about the ELC - how sad.

Skramble - the colour itself isn't the problem, it's what it's come to symbolise (and blue too, for that matter).

Fran, yes I agree, which is why I will support the campaign (although I actually think stereotyping can be as damaging to boys' aspirations, ambitions and sense of self). Also I'm a coward. While I will challenge certain assumptions and statements that other parents make about my/other people's kids based on what they're wearing or how they're playing, I don't really want to have a row every time I'm in the blooming playground. I have enough trouble stopping people removing DD from play equipment because they think she's too small to be safe on it - she's small for her age but more physically competent than many of her peers.

Most of us on this thread will be good examples of parenting that showed us that we have choices and to ignore the stereotypes. My parents did work hard to give me a wide variety of toys and experiences. BUT what I experienced in the wider world was as big an influence, and gave me some pretty hefty insecurities. So society-wide opinions do matter. It's not just what we let our kids have, it's the culture they have to grow up in that concerns me.

[cissycharlton]

I have two boys but having been somewhat of a tomboy myself I've looked upon this princess obsession with horror.

I've no doubt some little girls are into this but when I think back to my own childhood I can't remember any of us girls being so obsessed with such things.

Hurray for making all girls feel they are normal.

[scrummymum]

I don't get what all the fuss is about. My DD loves pink, dresses, glitter, fluff and disney films (especially the ones where the princess falls in love and her only wish is marrying the prince). On the other hand, she loves playing football, with cars and has plenty of clothes that aren't pink.

My DS is only 1 but already has a couple of tops that have a some pink in them. His favourite things to play with are a train and my DD's dolls.

I was very similar when I was little. Loved girly and boy based toys/clothes etc.

Just because girls like pink doesn't mean they can't be bright and independant and if boys like blue, they won't turn out to be macho pigs.

It is how they are brought up, not what colour their new top is.