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Parenting

Help - my baby doesn't know how to sleep

30 replies

dorisbonkers · 25/05/2009 17:47

Hello. I have a happy, active 7 month old and we've moved back from SE Asia. During that time I had no routine (and never read any books either) so just went with the flow and let my daughter lead the way. I am breastfeeding and she was a snacky eater, so we kind of got into a 'breastfeeding to sleep' type of thing.

But I'm concerned she doesn't sleep enough. She hardly naps in the day -- and if she does it's rarely for longer than 20 minutes. I try everything in my power to get her to have a morning nap and an afternoon nap and I've started a bath, massage, bed thing at night.

She will tend to sleep from 9-4.30 but then comes in our bed and generally feeds on and off and thrashes about.

She never self-settles, only nods off when I feed her. Now I've done 7 months I've fed her pretty much every two hours in the day and it's draining me. I also can get nothing done. I cried today as I'd got a tiny bit of wall to paint and I'd managed to get her to nap but she started crying after 10 minutes.

I'm in tears on and off about it because I know I need to help her learn to sleep but can't stomach the crying it out. I tried crying it out today and it felt wrong. But everyone tells me I need to let her cry. Maybe I do?

In the end I walked her down the road in a wrap and after 40 mins she was asleep, but that only lasted half an hour.

I hate this feeling. I was such a confident mother in the earlier months, I don't mind night feeds and was content to go with the flow. But SURELY she needs more sleep? This is really getting me down and making me think I should stop breastfeeding her (which I don't want to do) because at least others can feed her and it would break the reliance on my tits.

She rubs her eyes and gets cranky sometimes, but IS, on the whole, a very happy velcro-ish baby.

I'm sorry it's so long and waffly. I just feel so despondent, lacking in confidence, and feeling like everyone else's baby sleeps loads and takes nice long spaced out breastfeeds every 4 hours.

I just want to be a good mum to her.

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dorisbonkers · 31/05/2009 17:20

Hello. I thought I'd give an update. My daughter is now sleeping really well (9-4.30 ish) and has a long nap in the afternoon, sometimes two hours.

I bought dark curtains. Can you believe it was something that simple. I also soothed her back to sleep if she wakes quickly after going down and she then sleeps for a good chunk.

Thanks everyone for your advice. This may not last but has given me my sanity back.

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SparklingSarah · 26/05/2009 17:09

Don't join the the mumlympics it's boring and takes the enjoyment out of baby!

shes yours you do what your gut says and if it says feed her NOW feed her - if anyone says ooo feeding again? smile yes thank you!
you'll spoil her Thanks for your advice {grin]
if your gut says she can cry for five minutes while you finish something up then fine do it.

some days they feed loads some days they don't - that's just the way we are!

Yesterday Daniel spent the day nibbling and snacking and laughing at my boobs ( no idea WHAT is so amusing but ho hum!)
today he's gone back to normalish and feeding.
Tomorrow - who knows but I'll work round it as best I can!

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dorisbonkers · 26/05/2009 14:07

Just wanted to thank you all for some great tips, reassurance and support. I'm so glad I'm not alone.

I felt so confident early on but the move back and meeting other mothers (and my own mother) has taken the stuffing out of me, and I was worried I was doing my daughter a disservice.

I will continue to go with the flow, btu with some structure. I've decided that I will take her to bed for one nap (and I'll have a nap too) and walk her in the sling for another each day.

Off to Ikea to get some dark curtains today.

Thank you.

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SparklingSarah · 26/05/2009 11:32

Hi Doris
My son was like this - early days feeding hourly everyone told me I was doing it all wrong that it was my fault however as a second timer my thoughts were SOD YOU! my baby my life ! so I rolled with it.
He gradually spread to two or three hour feeds sometimes four.

I work from home so I have been where you are a few times where I just wanted to do one tiny thing and felt that I wasn't able.

he's one on Sunday and still chugging happily - he has a cup of water a day now though this helped alot because a few times he'd just want a quick nibble so I figured he may be thirsty.

he's never really been a big sleeper - 20 mins the odd hour.
Truthfully sometimes I think some mums are liable to extend the truth for some odd reason it feels like you are a better mother if your child sleeps or if they feed routinely - I have never seen how!
you're a great mum if you have a happy bonny baby who loves mum

this page is full of what I feel very very good advice, www.netmums.com/baby/Feeding_Baby_Breastfeeding.1101/

and something my midwife and breast feeding supporter said to me when I was feeling doubtful - think how times a day you eat or drink anything - I've been up 5 hours and I know I've had 3 coffees 2 glasses of water a sandwich and a cake finger (7 feeds!!!)

keep your chin up and enjoy your lurverly baby!!

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jumpingjojo · 26/05/2009 10:27

Hi Doris,
It sounds like you are doing a fine job. I have a similar sleep situation with my 7 month ds and have now realised that he is more normal than the babies that sleep all night and nap all day !
I just wanted to encourage you to join the library and get out the no cry sleep solution book, while you wait for yours. I first read this book about 8 weeks ago and have now gone from 3 half hour naps to two 1 - 2 hour naps each day. ( ok so not every day but most days, and I do have to rock the pram a few times during that time but its definitely progress )
The nights are slowly getting better too. Though our sleep is interrupted by itchy eczema which is also slowly getting better.
I wasn't much of a routine mum, but have actually found life a lot less stressful with more structure to our day. The 'up for 2hrs, nap, then up for 3hrs, nap' thing seems to work for my ds too.
HTH

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TwentiethCenturyHeffa · 26/05/2009 09:34

My DD never napped either, it was horrible She still doesn't nap much (10 months) but I've got used to it now. What saved me from a complete breakdown was just going with the flow. I found she would sleep in her buggy, in the sling and on me - I could rock her to sleep in my arms but she wouldn't let me put her down. I would take her out in her buggy once a day for one nap, do chores with her in the sling for another nap and lie on the sofa/in bed with her for the third nap. These days, she's happy to have two naps a day (sometimes just one, depending what's going on) in her cot and it's relatively easy.

As for development, DD is doing just fine (just started walking now) so I don't think that's a worry.

When I talked to other mums, I found lots who were in exactly the same boat so you're not alone

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maygirl · 25/05/2009 23:51

You sound like a lovely mum and DD sounds pretty normal. Its hard when other mums/own mums are critical, I found that far more draining and upsetting than the actual nightwaking. There's some advice on the ncss website on naps and sleep that you might find useful while you await the book. I agree with Imsally, background noise during naps- i used to settle ds in bouncer on vibrate to the Lighthouse family (dh said bored him to sleep!), or danced to a song with him, lowered into cot and left the music playing, when I decided needed to ease him off always falling asleep bfing. At that age he just wouldn't go to sleep on his own if placed in bed for a nap. He doesn't need all these props now to fall asleep btw!
Hope you feel better soon, meeting some likeminded mums always helps too, hope you come across someone in RL soon.

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MrsMattie · 25/05/2009 22:26

I know it's not helpful in a practical way, but honestly, this is pretty normal. And it will pass. Eventually...

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ImSallyIHaventAClue · 25/05/2009 22:23

Hi just wanted to send my sympathies.

I had one of these babies. It was pretty awful. He seems to have "developed" fine so far, though.

I also did BLW and one thing is that they can be a bit slower to really start eating lots. I found that "sleepy food" in the tummy made a really big difference - you know the sort of thing, creamy mash potato, butternut squash roasted in oil, and other foods high in fats, protein and complex carbs.

It took a couple of weeks for him to really get into eating but once he did BOY did he pack it away and he would sleep for hours afterwards.

It also made a difference whether the house was too quiet. We got a white noise CD and also instituted a strict sleep routine (first we do X, then Y, then Z) and this helped too. These were tips from NCSS.

I have also perfected the art of taking him out of the wrap while asleep and putting him down without waking him.... this got easier as he got older. When he was 7mo every single daytime nap was taken in the wrap. Try washing-up with baby in the wrap - this would unfailingly send DS to sleep.

Good luck xx

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SazzlesA · 25/05/2009 21:55

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nellie12 · 25/05/2009 21:52

Well if she's starting to wean then she might start sleeping better at night. As for not developing properly due to lack of naps during the day...well two of mine did and do the 20 minute nap at a time thing and no problems developing. Ds3 is far too nosey to sleep! Can you keep her active with walkers? (wear her out maybe?) Have you tried black out blinds. the early sunrise doesn't help kids sleep patterns. Roll on autumn for more sleep.

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babyphat · 25/05/2009 21:42

sounds exactly like my one too, i don't know anything about sleep training either and don't really fancy it, but if your little one is developing alright and happy she is probably getting enough sleep, especially if you are using a sling a lot - she would probably sleep more if she needed it as the sling is quite a good sleep-inducing environment i think.

just wanted to say don't feel like you are doing her any harm with the way you are doing things - if you want to change then i hope you find a solution that works for you though. i found that at 8 months she clicked with BLW, bfeeds less and sleeps better too

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missingtheaction · 25/05/2009 19:16

Snowymum, I can see that this might work for you but clearly it is not working for Doris. She is knackered, unable to function and miserable. My first didn't sleep through till he was 3 because I didn't sort it out and I can sympathise hugely with this.

Showing my age here but I would a) read 'solve your child's sleep problem' and b) look at controlled crying. If you follow it to the letter it's horrible for about three nights then suddenly it's magical. Babies learn really really quickly and she will not remember and consign you to a horrible old folks home in 50 years time!

You may find dd is never a great sleeper - some just don't need the same amount of sleep as others - but you will be able to teach her to self-settle which will make a huge difference.

You also need to set realistic expectations - you no longer have help, you can't achieve that much with a clingy 7-month old baby.

Hugs

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KingRolo · 25/05/2009 19:16

Another x post re NCSS! shows it's good though eh?

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KingRolo · 25/05/2009 19:12

I think from what you have said here you ARE a very good mum. You say you baby is happy, active and you clearly give her lots of hugs and love. Sounds like your daughter is getting all she needs from you and that's what matters most.

The lack of decent naps is a real pain though isn't it? What I have found is starting to work for us - dd same age as yours - is establishing a loose routine. Basically, up at 7am, nap at 9am, nap at 1pm, bath at 6pm, bed at 7pm - exactly the same every day. The feeds are all over the place still and she often needs feeding to sleep but we are getting longer naps as she's not overtired. She had 90 minutes this afternoon!

The No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley has some good suggestions too though you have to be patient as it's not a quick fix solution.

HTH

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dorisbonkers · 25/05/2009 19:03

Thanks snowymum, I never really DID see it as a problem until I got back to the UK. In Singapore I had a housekeeper and didn't have to do anything but sit and feed/take leisurely walks.

I've moved back to our tiny flat which needs serious sorting out and while Mr B has taken time off.

I think I've been feeling it's more of a problem because I'm thinking about possible return to part time work in 9 months time (getting ahead of myself a bit) and everyone keeps saying my daughter won't develop

Oh and I'm sadly one of those mothers who cannot express more than a few drops.

Since I've started BLW at 6-1/2 months I decided to give her a bottle of formula at night and she has gone to sleep just now.

I think you are right. My mother (strangely quite a hippy in some ways) keeps saying my daughter 'has me at it' an other mums in the building roll their eyes when I say she doesn't nap. My best friend told me I needed to wean her off the breast as I spent the evening round there. Someone told me she wouldn't develop properly if she didn't get 3 hours of naps in the day.

Like I said, all this, and struggling with things to do, has made me lose my confidence that once made me feel on top of the world.

I do worry though. She does rub her eyes alot and gets cranky (kicking when feeding, thrashing about) but then seems to be ok half an hour later.

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snowymum · 25/05/2009 18:55

That's quite weird. My boy - also 7 months - is exactly the same but I just don't see it as a problem. He always feeds to sleep. He's in our bed from midnight and starts breastfeeding from about 4.30 until we get up at 7-8. He doesn't sleep in the day except for naps, and he feeds regularly. And like yours he is a very happy baby. I'm only posting this in case it's other people making you feel something is wrong, what with all the crying out talk in your original post.
Personally, I think I'm doing a good job and my boy seems to know what he's doing too! So maybe you need to regain your confidence since you are clearly a fabulous mum by igonring what other people say you should be doing and continue to follow your girl's lead.
And bung her in her sling to do the painting. Just make sure it's the non toxic variety!

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TaurielTest · 25/05/2009 18:53

ah, sorry, x-posted re NCSS.

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TaurielTest · 25/05/2009 18:51

Poor you, it's knackering isn't it. YOu sound like you are being a great mum and your daughter is thriving, but wearing you out. My 11 mo DS is still rather like that, but things have got easier as he's got more mobile and is really putting away food now.
If you don't want to go down the controlled crying route (I didn't/don't), two books that helped me a bit, if you can get them from your library to look at - The Baby Sleep Book (Sears) and No Cry Sleep Solution (Pantley).
The feeding is a hard question - maybe some of the experienced voices on that topic could help more. What about bottles of expressed milk that someone else could give her?

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dorisbonkers · 25/05/2009 18:49

Thanks. I half-heartedly tried controlled crying as I felt it had got totally out of hand (she's 7 months so felt comfortable-ish to try it) but I couldn't really go through with it and Mr B picked her up.

I lean more to the attachment style (and boy, do I feel like I'm reaping the reward) but if it's bad for her health to sleep so little, then maybe I need to rethink things. I hope I am flexible to have some parent-led things in the mix.

The midwives in Singapore kept telling me off for feeding her when she was falling asleep, saying it was an awfully bad habit, but she was such a teeny tiny jaundiced thing I was feeding her all the time, and she was naturally falling asleep some of that time.

I had bought the No Cry Sleep Solution but it's in bulk shipping and won't get to me for weeks.

I just don't know how to encourage her to nap. Today even breastfeeding didn't achieve it.

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DorisIsAPinkDragon · 25/05/2009 18:36

Have you tried any controlled crying type stuff, I know it's not recommended before 6 mths at least and it depends on your 'style' of parenting as to whether it's appropriate.

I did read up on the problem a couple of years ago with a book called "healthy sleep habits happy child" fairly heavy going and I wouldn't recommend buying but you may be able to get a library copy.

I wonder if you get the night sleeps sorted, your LO might be more inclined to go down for longer during the day as a routine (I'm not a particularly routine based person, but I do like nap times )

Good luck and you are not alone

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mrsboogie · 25/05/2009 18:33

You say you let her cry - what about controlled crying where you let her cry for longer and longer intervals until she drops off? I haven't had to do it with my little boy but I would have if it had been necessary.

Some people don't like it and think its a bit cruel but if it works in a couple of days then its bloody worth it.

I also used one of these when my little boy was a couple of months old and have recently started using it again when he is whingy in bed - it keeps him settled long enough that he drops off

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MegBusset · 25/05/2009 18:33

Ah... I had one of these. All I can say is it will get better. And you are being a good mum to her as you are doing your best to meet her needs

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smudgethepuppydog · 25/05/2009 18:15

Oh God, I remember it well. DS was a non-sleeper, I remember doing everything I could to encourage him to sleep but nothing worked. It was such a shock after the perfect sleep all night, feed every four hours, text book DD. I often said that if he'd been first born he'd have been only born. It did pass eventually but only once he got more mobile. Not much help to you am I.

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dorisbonkers · 25/05/2009 18:10

Thanks. I find she'll only fall asleep if I'm out walking, not moseying around the house. Also, she doesn't like feeding in a wrap or sling and likes her head free.

I've tried a dummy and while she doesn't instantly spit it out, she doesn't nod off with it either.

Oh, and I used to swaddle but stopped around 4 months as I thought they didn't like it but I'll try again (she's 7 months now)

I never did any sleep training as she was an early baby and weighed only 5 lbs and was fairly slow to put on weight so I took every opportunity to feed her -- even I think when she wasn't hungry. She never feeds for long so I'm always worried she's had enough. Maybe she's never feeling nice and full? I just don't know any more.

I don't think it's pain stopping her sleeping but if it were, what sort of thing could it be?

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