bf v ff

[zoesmum2012]

Just really wanted to open chat about the above cos I don't think bf is all that and ff isn't as bad is its made out to be my dd bf for few day then ff and she's fine!! Even my hv said studys about bf don't tell the truth cos money family support etc isn't taken into account ps no nasty comments on how am evil etc

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

*be any different.

[gamerchick]

Health visitors are mint

My ex had to intervene once in an argument about Co sleeping. I got a new one after that who was amazing.. I was sorry when youngest was too old for one.

[mrsmartin1984]

I know they are nurses. But they are not experts on BFing but they pretend they are. Most parents don't need them. Believe me if you hear some of the crap that comes out of their mouth you'd be shocked. On the whole they are terribly opinionated.

[MabelBee]

I also have a lovely health visitor. She comes around for a nice chat and has been very helpful with my older children. But when I google her breastfeeding advice, most recently that I should wait long enough between feeds for my breasts to be full and hard, I am unsurprised that other women fail. If you take advice like that at face value without double checking it, you are doomed. Have had some corkers off midwives too. I say again, they should not be allowed to advise people on how to feed babies.

[MabelBee]

And she is so unsubtle about pushing the formula! You have to be very confident to resist someone coming into your home when you've just had a baby and saying how much easier formula would be.

[MummyLuce]

Agree that most HVs appear to be thick as ... I have had no contact with mine since day 10 I think and my LO is
now 18 months!
It's annoying when people who ff go on and on about feeling like a failure for giving up with bf....but then also bang on about how great ff is! Simple truth is that if you couldn't bf for medical reasons then you aren't a failure and it's obviously not your fault. And if you gave up because its painful/inconvenient/means you have to do every feed/feel self conscious/too time time consuming then just learn from it and bf next time! Don't bang on about being a failure and simultaneously rejoice in formula. The battle there is clearly in your own head, doesn't need to be discussed on a forum, right?

[forgetmenots]

I see what you're saying mummyluce actually! It must be irritating to hear and I think we all get a bit fractious about this topic. But I genuinely rejoice in formula (even though it smells) as it allowed DS to thrive, and am therefore SO grateful for it. But would have loved to bf longer than I did and exclusively, and while my angst (that still exists after months!) is probably (definitely) irrational, it is undoubtedly there. I don't expect sympathy but I do think mums should stop judging others (and that cuts several ways with feeding, and includes hesitating before trotting out HV advice that might not be true...)

I think most MN threads are discussions that could be had in posters' heads... Certainly my sleep-deprived one!

[BopsX3]

I don't think I've heard anyone I know that FFs say it's easier lol. In fact, I'd say its harder and breast feeding is more convenient. You don't have to faff about with making bottles, washing bottles, making sure they're the right temp, getting up in the middle of the night and standing in the kitchen for 20 mins while a bottle cools down/warms up, you don't have to find somewhere that'll warm a bottle up for you whilst your out etc etc. I FF all 3 of mine but I definately would not say it was more convenient. (Not looking for an argument there by the way, just expressing my opinion)

[BopsX3]

Oops, sorry, that first sentence should say more convenient, not easier. Easier is definately the wrong word

[AnythingNotEverything]

I think it's really important that people feed their children. I don't really care how.

Its also important that we recognise internationally respected advice that breastfeeding is best for both mums and babies. This is more valid than anecdotal evidence.

Finally, I also think it's important to use punctuation so that the reader can follow your argument easily.

[weeblueberry]

I don't think I've heard anyone I know that FFs say it's easier lol.

I think it depends in what was you consider if easier. I found breastfeeding DD very stressful mentally and physically. So while there's obviously the sterilising and organisational side that's lengthier, if you're having issues breastfeeding then it's a million times easier. I breastfed DD for 5 and a half months and hated it. Utterly hated it. When we eventually introduced some formula feeds I realised how much better it made me feel. So, for me, it was much much easier :)

[BopsX3]

Weeblueberry, I posted another comment straight after saying I didn't mean to say easier, I meant more convenient. Sorry for the confusion

[weeblueberry]

Ah sorry I didn't see that :)

[BopsX3]

No worries I should've checked my original comment before posting.

But I can definately understand your explanation of why, in some cases, BFs not easier. I've read on other threads about people having problems with latching and milk flow etc (sorry if I've got that wrong, I haven't Bf so don't know all the technical terms)

[BerstieSpotts]

Seriously, just go and look at the breast and bottle feeding board if you want to know what people are doing to help and support. Look at it now, in the middle of kids' tea time. Look at it at 3am. Look at the posts from mothers desperately trying to feed their hours-old baby who won't latch on. Look how many pages, and pages, and pages there are of advice and hope and support, real, practical support, not "Aww it'll get better hun!"

Please also note the numerous threads on that board where posters are asking for help with mixed feeding, or how to make a bottle up the best way, how long they can keep made up formula or expressed milk for, asking for advice on sterilising, and people supporting them and offering help and advice and sometimes even going to the trouble of looking things up.

Why would you come on here and accuse people of being unhelpful when you clearly haven't even looked at the relevant board? It's just rude. Quite frankly, mumsnet is one of the best resources for help and support with breast and bottle feeding, anywhere in the country - possibly even the world.

[zoesmum2012]

www.babble.com/baby/benefits-of-breastfeeding-baby-formula-feeding/ can some1 read this ( it got be thinking )

[mrsmartin1984]

You've provided a website that's sponsored by disney to back up your claims that FFing is ok. Brilliant, I'm completely swayed. I love disney and they are experts in infant feeding.

I shall completely dismiss all the other scientific surveys that shows all the amazing benefits of BFing.

[NomDeClavier]

Do you really want me to deconstruct all those arguments?

No-one here has said FF is going to kill your baby. That author acknowledges there is some evidence that BM is better physically but also points out that at the end of a day it's a judgement call, BF has an emotional cost and we take risks every day that are equivalent to or greater than FFing. It's not saying that FF is as good, or better, just that it's a viable alternative. I don't see any argument against that!

[zoesmum2012]

Tell me something why didn't none of you mention what she said about bf ??

[ExBrightonBell]

Zoe, can you tell me more about the author of this article please? Why do you find her to be a particularly reliable authority on this topic? Have you read her book, and read through the scientific research that she references? Do you agree with her interpretation of the science?

[DeepThought]

from that article:

''I wanted to understand how breastfeeding has come to be perceived as the holy grail of health and formula-feeding as the equivalent of giving a baby nicotine'' I don't ever hear folk saying that, this is rather ridiculous hyperbole, inflated language if you like

''we need to stop making claims that breastfeeding is the only choice for mothers who care about their children.'' who is the ''we'' that make these claims?

The author has a book to push

(Have delib not linked here)

[NomDeClavier]

????? I mentioned BF twice in reference to that article, once positively, once negatively?! And further down the thread I specifically acknowledged the downsides of BFing!

Just like you're selectively reading that article you are selectively reading this thread and that's not going to get anyone anywhere.

[NomDeClavier]

Or would you have preferred us to link to her article earlier? There are hundreds of equally valid links out there, and given that the author has an agenda I would suggest there are more valid ones which say essentially the same thing.

Infant feeding studies are virtually impossible to carry out because of the number of variables. The results of the most reliable studies tend to indicate that BF has health benefits but short of extremely unethical studies involving identical twins we will never be able to prove it.

BFing has an emotional and sometimes physical cost associated with it which outweighs the health benefits to mother and baby. FFing poses potential health risks to the baby from contaminated formula or incorrectly prepared feeds. Neither is perfect.

Formula is never going to completely replicate BM, it would be crazy to say that it can, but it's a perfectly healthy and viable alternative.

[AnythingNotEverything]

I think the key message, which is often missed, is that while breast milk is best for babies, there's nothing really wrong with formula. It's not a binary issue - one isn't good while the other is bad.

[BopsX3]

Both breast feeding and formula feeding have pros and cons. You do what's best for you and your baby

If you breast feed, fantastic! It you formula feed, brilliant! As long as the baby is fed and the mother isn't suffering mentally or physically then I really don't think it matters which you choose.

I really don't see why there is such a massive debate over the whole thing. It's pointless! Breast feeders are never going to change their minds and neither are formula feeders.

Why can't people just leave it at that?