I think I have always know this but today it has really hit home. Help me change please.

[MissStrawberry]

I have three children and stay at home to look after them, the pets and the house. I do most things but DH does all he can when here too.

They have become my whole life and I don't do a lot other than look after them and all that entails plus tonnes of extras that I don't need to do but I like baking so do it. I spend a ridiculous amount of time planning meals and cooking them. Most of the time I am fine with this.

This morning my 10 year old was rude so wasn't able to do what she wanted on the computer and stomped off saying Okay with attitude but then was fine. My 8 year old was full of attitude and rudeness and was pretty relentless for about 45 minutes until I sent him into school. Apparently I don't help him or do much for him .

I do far too much for them and spend a lot of time cooking and baking nice things for them to eat and somehow the meaner they are to me the more I seem to bake and make ice cream, etc but my reason for this is probably ridiculous and obvious. Having driven back to school to take a forgotten piece of kit I had decided not to do all the lovely little extras for them and just feed them normally and do their washing and see if they notice. I know they won't. So why I have I half prepared a mango and banana sorbet for them to have tomorrow and then started looking for something yummy to make? It is almost like I don't know what else to do with myself and feel if I don't do it I am being mean. Once dinner was served then fruit then nothing else and it was like I had not fed them anything other than bread and butter.

I feel I show love through cooking but tbh I am warn down by the relentless bickering between them and rudeness to me but seems completely wrong to stop the lovely things I make .

If you are still with me - .

[Rooners]

You are a brill mum. I think the only thing is confidence - they might be picking up on the way you don't feel too confident and kind of testing to see if it's true, in a way?

Without a good role model how on earth can you see that you are doing everything right?

It isn't about the baking at all or spending time with them/doing things for them, it's just that they can tell you aren't sure if you deserve any respect, and they are trying to work out how to treat you.

I don't know if this is way off the mark because frankly I'm a pretty terrible mother and can never sort out my own situation. so ignore if it's a load of codswallop. But I wish I could bake like you!

[beingsuper]

Miss Strawberry you sound great and I wish I had your energy. My children are quite big contributors to the household and it comes from my lazy tendencies so its a mixed bag.

I don't think you should focus on cooking in terms of discipline as it sounds like something you love and enjoy and are proud of and using it as a threat or punishment could take away something very meaningful for you.

However clearly they need to understand their responsibilities as a family member and not just people to be taken care of. Totally agree with your DH about not taking in the kit.

One suggestion is that we have instigated a cooking rota where they take turns to cook a meal for us. Currently we do it mainly in school holidays as they are quite young and they cook once a week. Two benefits are that they will hopefully leave home able to look after themselves (something both Dh and I lacked due to having uber-mothers) and also they are gradually learning that cooking is hard work and can take a long time and it means a lot when someone says thank you.

The important thing is that its their commitment to the family, they don't get out of it - if they don't cook when its their turn then no-one gets any food. It can't be something you jump in on and takeover although obviously depending on ages there can be a lot of supervision.

Even DC2 (4)who is very fussy is gradually learning that its not kind to say yuk and scream and much nicer if he says thank you but I'm not eating that!

hope your day improves!

[MissStrawberry]

Rooners - spot on! If I have to dish out consequences and are confident I am being fair and using the right consequence the children definitely react better and sort themselves out. When I am wishy washy or even sound like I don't know what I am doing they escalate.

When I do bake with the kids I love it and they appear too as well so I will definitely start a regular thing of baking together more often at the weekend.

I think they are just so used to mummy always being there and being able to produce X at 7am because they forgot to tell me they needed it the day or so before so take me for granted.

Today I have prepared Jami Oliver's Hit 'N' Run chicken for tea and I have knocked up some dough so I can make baguettes to go with it to fill then up . Mango and banana sorbet for pudding.

[JohnnyUtah]

So now you have a free few hours? Sod the housework, do something nice!

[MissStrawberry]

Washing to load into dryer, clothes to fold or hang up and I probably should clean the bathroom but DH did it on the weekend so maybe I can leave that until another day. Lunch soon as hungry but otherwise I think I am all done for what needs doing.

[User3433399]

This sounds really familiar from my own childhood. I'm now mid thirties with my own kids and spent quite a bit of time reflecting on my mum's approach to parenting.

She did everything for us, from making sure we had the right kit for school, ensuring we'd done our homework, tidying up after us, cooking each member of the family a different meal every night according to their taste (that one I still can't get over!). We were the centre of her world, and do you know what, we didn't appreciate any of it.

Flash forward to late teens/early adulthood and my brother and I had no sense of personal responsibility for anything - I now realise - because mum had always sorted out our lives and made sure we had what we needed/remembered what we needed to do, and ensured our every whim was catered for. We also had a massive sense of entitlement where my mum was concerned in terms of her time and emotional support - to the point that it had a huge strain on her. For all her best intentions it made that transition to adulthood really difficulty, and we had to learn a lot of life lessons the hard way when it became clear that our expectations didn't wash in the outside world. My brother (also now in his thirties) still seems to have no idea how to behave in someone else's house and still seems to think wet towels and dirty plates magically sort themselves out, and that it's ok to forget every family birthday because no one reminded him. It doesn't go down well.

I guess my point is, it sounds like your kids already expect life on a plate, literally in terms of the food and figuratively in terms of you doing most things for them. In the long term this isn't going to do them any favours.

My advice would be to put your foot down and reclaim the respect you deserve. Make your case clear: they tidy up, take responsibility for themselves and their things, behave well, speak to you respectfully etc. or you won't be doing all their washing and ironing and baking amazing food. Everyone contributes to family life, and not just for a few days.

I think you need to find an interest that takes you out of the house so you're not tempted to spend all your time pleasing them, and you build your own sense of self esteem too.

[MissStrawberry]

I know why I do everything for them. I had nothing done for me. I never knew where I would be living from one month to the next sometimes. I crave feeling like home is home. I also never had anyone to teach me how to cook, run a home and do all the grown up stuff.

While my children will never go without I know I still need to teach them how to look after themselves. I suppose I feel they are still quite young (8.10,12) but lately DS1 has been asking to do the washing and the other day asked if he could iron. I have always said no but the other day I said yes and he did the last sleeve on one shirt and ironed a whole shirt. Did a pretty good job. I had said no as worried about him burning himself and it is the old trick of being quicker to just do it yourself. He is very good at baking and I try and let him do it when he asks but sometimes the mess he leaves and the non existent shopping list to replace what he has used gets a bit wearing.

DD and DS2 mostly always volunteer when I call someone to come and do a job and will usually do what I ask without too much fuss. DS1 nearly always moans and does it with bad grace. Seems he wants to pick and choose what he is willing to do .

For me I have just found it really hard to let go. I have been over protective of them as we nearly lost DS1 at term and DD and DS2 have physical problems but enough now. DS1 is fine. DD and DS2 will be fine. I need to let them go a bit.

[BarberryRicePud]

Don't be too hard on yourself OP. You had what sounds like an awful childhood and you're doing you're very best to save them any of the pain you had. Good for you.

Yes you've maybe swung a bit far the other way, but you recognise that too.

Sounds like you're a pretty fab parent to me.

[beingsuper]

It sounds like you are doing a far better job than you thought earlier this morning. They help, your DS1 has picked up an interest in baking from you (yes you need to work on the clearing up but I think that's pretty universal and just something you have to keep on at!). Your DD and DS2 volunteer to help out. Your DS1 doesn't want to and most families have one of those too (I certainly do and I just consider him more hard work rather than a result of my failure, again you just have to keep on at it). Most children will claim that you do nothing for them or push another button sometimes - its not you personally (but you still need to deal with it).

There was a fab bit of advice passed on down the thread 'do nothing for a child which they are able to do themselves', Obviously that could be taken to extremes and there are practicalities and general kindnesses to take into account but as a general undercurrent to parenting I think its a very useful thought to hang onto. Being capable and independent leads to better working lives and definitely better relationships. Its a gift to bring up a child that way.

Now if someone could help me with my ridiculous temper (not violent or verbal, just ridiculous and inappropriate for a grown woman) and talk to me about why I threw DS1s lunchbox at the front door this morning I would be eternally grateful!

[MerryMarigold]

We don't have desserts every night. Do they have school dinners. Pudding every night may be doing them no favours - particularly when they are 30 and are used to pudding every night, but don't have the metabolism for it!!!

I think if they eat enough first course they should not be hungry. I would just start cutting pudding down to weekends only. Or a yoghurt during the week.

How about replacing pudding with a family game? It could be something really quick.

[JohnnyUtah]

Don't think of it as stopping doing things for them, think of it as teaching them the life skills they need to know. Because that's what it is.

You haven't said what you do for yourself. Is that because you can't remember any more? Maybe you could go and buy yourself a book you've been meaning to read for a while, and have a nice cuppa while you start it.

[SpringFlowers]

I haven't read this whole thing (have four children and no time!) but I wanted to say that their behaviour and your behaviour as a mum are not always related to each other. Children will be children and sometimes they just say stuff which comes out as being rude and unappreciative because they feel a bit off or annoyed or fed up. You might do half the stuff you do and they would be the same. I think you are an amazing mum. You know what you would like home to be for your family and you are making that a reality. They feel loved, secure and cared for and nothing sets children up for a happy and fulfilled future more than that. I understand that you would like them to be more independent and they will be, they are young at the moment. There is plenty of time to teach them to scramble eggs, make packed lunches and launder things. I love that you allow your children a childhood.

[MissStrawberry]

Pudding every night yes but it is fruit/yogurt some nights, other nights it will be fruit/muffin or a fruit crumble. It isn't cake or biscuits or chocolate. Tonight they are having banana and mango sorbet. I can't remember the last time they had a biscuit and cake isn't even once a week. The muffins are usually full of fruit not chocolate. My children eat a huge variety of vegetables and fruit, I am not going to start not giving pudding when they are used to it. They are all tall and skinny and full of energy so I must be doing that bit right. I see no reason to suddenly stop giving them pudding.

Temper? Agnus Castus helps with PMT if you think it might be that related.

[MissStrawberry]

I have half an hour every day for me reading my book while I sit on the car park waiting for the kids to come out of school.

[MissStrawberry]

for SpringFlowers. Sometimes you just need someone to say you aren't doing too bad at all and state something good.

for everyone who has taken the time to advise me.

Tonight's dinner is chicken roasted with veg, roast potatoes, broccoli and carrots with handmade baguettes. I have the sorbet in my blender ready for pudding.

[WipsGlitter]

I'm sorry but half an hour with a book in a car sounds a bit pants.

I think talking to someone about the food thing might be a good idea. A roast dinner plus baguette sounds a bit much and very carby.

[MissStrawberry]

Seriously?

Are you really picking my food apart?

chicken thighs, onions, red and yellow peppers, tomatoes, roast potatoes, broccoli and carrots. What on earth is wrong with that?

[MerryMarigold]

I don't think the car is enough time for you. Dump the baguette, the resentment and have a nap or a walk for an hour

[MissStrawberry]

I think you are being really unfair. I had a moment of feeling knackered and knew I needed to change so asked for help. Now you are saying my half an hour to read is shit, I am feeding my kids too many carbs and are full of resentment. I am not. I was shattered and knew I was spoiling my kids. That was all.

[QTPie]

Try not to equate food with love. Food is about nutrition and not love. If you don't have treats then you aren't unloved. If you feel unloved then treats won't make you feel loved. If you don't give treats, then it doesn't mean that you don't love.

I think that is a slippery slope.

Agree with baking/cooking with the kids as a treat (the activity). But don't confuse your love for them and food - otherwise you will confuse them.

[WipsGlitter]

No, it sounds lovely. But you don't need bread as well. It's too much.

[QTPie]

Sorry, didn't read the whole thread before posting... OP your original post looks a lot different from your last few posts (most people equate baking for kids as "cakes and biscuits".

Still worth dis-associating food with love.

[MissStrawberry]

We'll have to agree to disagree, WipsGlitter. I think I have said why I made a baguette as well.

QTPie - yes, I have moved on from the OP as I have been working things out.

[HeadKnot]

Hi
Having had a child born with a heart condition, I understand the protective thing, I really do. It is so hard to let them just be, but you have to let them make mistakes and take risks .
Can I ask what issues your children had/have? Does it affect the kind of things they can do around the house? Do you need to feed them up because they have a history of being poorly?

[beingsuper]

that's really interesting you mentioned PMT re my temper strawberry. Have been relieved I don't suffer from it but I did get my period this evening. Hmmmm. But then again my DS2 was being really annoying! It usually is several weeks between outbursts but I always thought that was because I realised what I was doing and made an effort. Maybe its hormonal, will have to try and track. Thankfully its not focused at the children, its the inanimate objects that get it. I occasionally stamp and throw like a toddler. Not a great example for my dramatic DS2. DS1, bless him, tries very hard to suppress a snigger.

Loving the emphasis on your food choices!! Glad you sound so much better. It can grind you down sometimes.