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Parenting

Things a paediatrician says that you wouldn't expect? (Long)

87 replies

purrpurr · 07/09/2013 21:27

We're parents to a 4 month old baby with severe reflux, have been round the houses with the Healrh Visitor and GP and finally took our baby to A&E today after she'd pretty much stopped taking her milk altogether, was producing very concentrated dark yellow urine suggesting heading towards dehydration, screaming when attempting to feed etc.

Triage nurse and A&E Dr were understanding and sympathetic, witnessed her arching her back and screaming red faced when laid on her back, suggested to us it looked like severe reflux and passed us to children's assessment ward.

There a different nurse asked for background again, then became obsessed with the fact that, after 3 months of bad reflux and slow weight gain on one formula milk, on the advice of our HV, we changed her milk (made her projectile vomit) changed it again due to vomiting (worked for one week then back to normal), nurse abruptly stated, "Well of course you'll have problems if you're changing her milk all the time". She then fed her version of what we'd told her to the paediatrician.

Surprise surprise, she had no sympathy for us, didn't listen to anything we tried to say, and came out with the following gems:

  • When our baby is screaming in distress when laid down (the screaming is instant), it is because she is bored.
  • All babies cry, you know.
  • Let your baby lead you, don't focus on the amounts she is drinking. After all, if you were breast feeding, you wouldn't know how much she was eating would you?


This admittedly really got to me, I was speechless, I think if I'd not been frazzled I would have said the following:

My baby is eating A FUCKING THIRD of what she should be eating, if I were breast feeding surely my breasts would feel full/achy because she would be latching on, taking a tiny mouthful and screaming and screaming. If this went on long term I would guess my supply would be dwindling. Potentially even dried up. Don't throw that emotive crap at me. It might be a valid point if we weren't dealing with a BIG FUCKING DEAL here.

Phew.

  • All formula milks are the same, including Comfort and Stay down and anti reflux and organic and everything else, they are all the same.
  • ... But changing the milk all the time, as you have been doing, is causing problems. You need to pick a milk and stick to it.


O rly? Insert all the sarcastic emoticons the Internet has right here.

  • How much does she weigh? Well she's alright then.


?

  • You can't tell if a person is dehydrated by looking at their urine.


Really? I mean really? So urine tells us nothing? I am finding this one hard to take on board.

  • There is nothing wrong here. It might be 1pm and your baby may well have only had 3oz but that is fine, what is the problem? Here's some medicine that might make a difference within a month. Bye.


Can't complain massively because we got the right medication and hopefully we are on the road to having a baby that is not screaming in agony and unable to eat. She is asleep on my lap and I can feel her tummy rumbling and I know that when we try to feed her she will scream and struggle and it is heartbreaking. Here's hoping this fixes it.

Have you had an unexpected experience like this? Did you feel like a time waster but still wanted to battle for your baby?
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northernlurker · 08/09/2013 00:17

I thought pyloric stenosis made itself apparent earlier - OP's baby is 4 months now. Could be worth mentioning though.

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peachesandpickles · 08/09/2013 00:18

neverending You are right in thinking it is much more common in boys but can affect girls too.

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Neverending2012 · 08/09/2013 00:20

I think you are right northernlurker about it being earlier

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Neverending2012 · 08/09/2013 00:22

Fwiw it's so good to hear others have battled with the horrors of reflux, it's very isolating.

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purrpurr · 08/09/2013 07:12

Thanks for all replies, totally shattered after a long night of napping between DD crying in misery, will reply individually in a bit after coffee has been sought.

My DH managed to get her to have 130ml over 1.5hrs last night starting at 1.30am, most of it went in in two lots of 60ml. Then at 6am she had 120ml all in one go, with no crying, at all. There was a whimper as she went from upright to feeding position but then she fed, was winded and went to sleep on my chest.

No idea what today will bring, my parents are going to look after her for a few hours so we can get some more sleep. Feel a lot better that she's had 250ml overnight.

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Tee2072 · 08/09/2013 08:15

Oh good, that sounds like the medicine might be working, purr. Glad you're getting a break today and some sleep.

If she doesn't start taking more, go straight back to A&E and remember the feeling you had writing your OP and use it!

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inneedofrain · 08/09/2013 08:18

Hi op

Great news that you all managed some feeds overnight

Fingers crossed for you all for today

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HPsauceonbaconbuttiesmmm · 08/09/2013 09:31

Sorry you had such a poor response from the hospital. Just to say it's almost certain you saw a junior doctor and not a consultant. If you get similar treatment again ask to speak to the consultant in charge and if no luck there demand a PALS rep comes to see you as you're not happy with the care you've been given. I guarantee attitude will change immediately.

Ds was a refluxer but not that bad. You have my sympathy. Not long til weaning. Would you consider starting early? Supposedly helps a lot.

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purrpurr · 09/09/2013 14:00

Well things aren't any better but they aren't massively worse either.

My mum and dad had DD yesterday and got her to eat three full bottles from 11am to 6pm. We were gobsmacked. When we watched her feed DD she just pushes past the screaming and keeps the bottle teat in DD's mouth, it looked horrendous but worked really quickly, I was equal parts horrified and surprised. So I tried it when we got home. She took 10ml that I basically force fed her before throwing it back up. I felt disgusted with myself and confused.

Upon questioning my mum further she had been secretly adding baby rice to DD's bottles which as I saw, seemed to help her take them.

My DH is against weaning before 6 months. I was until it got this bad, if I was a single parent I would have started weaning this weekend even though its basically a massive Don't Do It Or Your Child Will Die type scenario. I am against baby rice though as from what I've read the nutritional value is about on the same level as cardboard, could be wrong though. My mum knew the collected view on weaning (public united front of No Weaning Before 6 months) and especially knew my opinion on baby rice, so feel shocked and almost betrayed there.

But on the other hand, she got my DD to eat normally, at times she normally would have eaten at.

Mum was also keen to tell me that my DD is absolutely fine and there's nothing to worry about, as if I'm a total head case idiot. Hey if that's the case then why the clandestine baby rice, hey?

Today I've hit rock bottom. DD has had 120ml so far and has cried so hard and for so long she is hoarse. We're off to the in laws tonight for a cuppa and they're of the same opinion as my mum, that there's no problem. It's enough to make you think you're nuts.

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lougle · 09/09/2013 14:27

DD1 had reflux and we weren't helped at all. When DD2 came with the same symptoms I wouldn't take no for an answer. I took her to the GP and asked for a hospital referral.

She had ranitidine orally, plus carobel just before a breast feed. Carobel is a natural thickener. I used to express 5 ml of breast milk, mix some carobel powder with it and feed it to her from a spoon. She was able to take it like this from 8 weeks old. Then, breast feed as normal. It really made a world of difference. Available for £3.99 for a 135g box, but I got mine on prescription.

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prissyenglisharriviste · 09/09/2013 14:44

Don't stress about the baby rice - it's actually a really helpful indication that she finds dealing with 'thicker' fluids helpful. (And whilst it may not be current advice,, lots of kids of mners were weaned at 16 weeks when that was the current advice). Advice changes. Lots of refluxy babies find dealing with thicker stuff easier. (And I know that it should have been 'your' decision, but sometimes we do get a bit tied up on what the rule book says, and are afraid to try things that might be beneficial).

Obviously you want to crack on and not wean her at this point, but if it was my baby, I'd be considering slightly early weaning, with lots of milk added in, as I knew she found it easier to deal with.

That said, I've had two reflux babies and then a third with very low tone due to cerebral palsy (so tube fed, then all sorts of feeding issues because of the low tone which was similar to reflux for obvious reasons). In the 'just reflux' cases, it was eased a lot when we introduced weaning, and in the third case, we had to thicken all fluids (including expressed breast milk) as she was unable to deal with any thin liquids at all.

If she is showing no signs of dehydration, then that's great - you just need to work on making her more comfortable. No one wants an unhappy baby, but that's an easier fix than a severely dehydrated baby, iykwim.

We used gaviscon and other meds on and off, but tbh, time and weaning were the major benefactors. And I speak as someone who spent way too many hours crying at the gp and a and e with a baby that refused point blank to feed and screamed blue murder if fed during daylight.... (We went nocturnal with no.3 as her muscle tone was more even at night, and she was better able to coordinate a suck).

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purrpurr · 09/09/2013 16:03

I'm seriously considering early weaning now but i would never convince my DH. I'm convinced now it would really really help.

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MiaowTheCat · 09/09/2013 16:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

surprise11871 · 09/09/2013 16:17

Hi my.little one suffers from horrendous reflux and silent reflux if ur not comfortable with adding baby rice to babies bottle what has helped my lo a bit is ranitidine but also a thickener prescribed by the doctor called carabel it thickens the milk helping it easier to digest as well as drink it also has extra calories in it to help wiv weight gain. It is made by cow and gate and specifically made to be added to a babies bottle but you will need either a fast flow or variflow that. As someone whose little one was a struggle to get 90mls down him in an hour and therefore wanted feeding every 2 hours i give u my sympathy and i.hope you get the help needed soon. It hasn't been 100% he still suffers with some foods like apples but weaning helped a bit although at the time i was worried he would take even less. To my surprise he started taking 5 ozs ever 3 hours

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inneedofrain · 09/09/2013 16:23

Purrpurr, could you show your DH this thread? I´m sure you can´t all go on like this, i know that I weaned early and I think everyone one of my friends / relations / mothers I know with reflux babies all did too.

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yetanotherworry · 09/09/2013 16:27

I had a BF refluxy baby. I used baby rice instead of drugs to calm his reflux - it worked! We didn't wean early apart from this. You don't have to wean, just give a spoon of baby rice with each bottle. In terms of his gut development/allergies, it isn't going to be any worse than giving him ranatidine and other drugs (I saw it baby rice as being a safer option).

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purrpurr · 09/09/2013 16:31

Inneed, my DH is very much a rule follower, it would be insanity to wean 2 months early in his view, because official advice says not to. He may bend and discuss it at 5 months potentially but I'm not sure. I don't know.

Miaow, it could be, but I'm scared that she will need to present as poorly before they'll even take us seriously and we are working round the clock to try to at least maintain her weight and relative health - hydration and so on. I can't take my foot off the gas for more than an hour. I can't let her get sick. What do you mean by no nos before 6 months?

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AnyaKnowIt · 09/09/2013 16:31

dd was weaned at 4 months due to reflux. I gave her solids first then milk and it use to stay down. if she had milk first then everything used to come back up

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purrpurr · 09/09/2013 16:36

Yetanother I think it would be an easier decision to make if it were just my call to make, because your reasoning sounds fine to me. My DH would say, if medication was that severe that rice was actually a safer alternative, why wouldn't they prescribe that instead? And I'd struggle to answer that. It's a difficult and emotive topic.

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purrpurr · 09/09/2013 16:39

Anya, that makes sense to me. My DD + severe silent reflux + a liquid diet = disaster. I've just suggested to DH potentially making up a bit of the Heinz baby porridge with formula, so the porridge is the vehicle to get all the relatively nutritious stuff of formula into her, but it's not been taken on board. Sometimes being married means you're just frozen and ineffective as a parent. My instincts are telling me we need to make some changes but I may have to ignore them
:(.

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inneedofrain · 09/09/2013 16:46

Um sweetie the rules are bony working for your dd!

She needs something different to the rules

Can dh explain to you why he won't consider anything but the rule book? In my experience and I've got quite a bit babies and toddlers none of them ever fully complied with the "rule book"

We have a lot of guidelines and suggestions as parents but what it comes down to at the end of the day is what we feel right doing and what is right for each individual child

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inneedofrain · 09/09/2013 16:46

Bony= not sorry on phone

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AnyaKnowIt · 09/09/2013 16:47

I would give it a try. if no change then nothing gained nothing lost.

plus its a hell of a lot better then trying to force feed

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PoppyAmex · 09/09/2013 16:50

purrpurr I have no direct experience, but my heart goes out to you; I hope the medication proves effective today.

I'm very much a "rule follower" by nature, but might be worth pointing out to your DH that most of our generation was weened significantly earlier than 6 months and while it might not be ideal, it might make a huge difference to the level of comfort and well being of your baby at the moment.

Best of luck and look after yourself

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PlotTwist · 09/09/2013 16:57

Baby rice used to be for babies 12 weeks and up, and then they changed it to from 4 months. One size does not fit all with babies. If she takes her milk a lot better with a bit of rice in it, I would go for that like a shot, no matter what the rule books say.

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