Baby in room with us or not?

[Macaroona]

I'm 18 weeks with my first, and wondered what the norm was - do you/did you find it best to have your baby in your bedroom at first? If so, for how long?

My DH will be getting up for work at 6.30 daily so I know it'll be more disruptive for him, but I know he'll support whatever is best. I'm a heavy sleeper so worry that if we put the cot next door in the 2nd bedroom, I won't hear the baby cry. I'm planning to bf if that makes any difference.

Thanks in advance for advice!

[grappy]

Octaviapink, I still think there is some confusion either by the paramedic trainer or otherwise.

While no external injury is required to cause shock, there does need to be an underlying cause, such as blood loss, drugs, poisoning, cold, heat, burns or heart attack.

Neurogenic shock is a form of shock caused by neurological trauma, which means damage to the spinal cord or disruption to the nervous system due to anaesthesia.
It is distinct from the more common hypovolaemic shock which results from blood loss.

There is research being carried out at the moment because some babies who have died of SIDS have shown post mortem shock like symptoms. The cause of these shock symptoms has not been identified yet, the goal is to improve first responder procedure which is currently to use CPR rather than to push fluids as one would with shock.
This may have been what the paramedic was referring to.

No matter how much I jump out at a baby and shout BOO, they will not die of shock. They may die of a heart attack which results in shock, but that would need some underlying heart condition.

[SuiGeneris]

Definitely in your room: safer, less disruptive of your sleep and absolutely lovely. Also helps DH connect more with the baby and his/her rhythms. We had DS in our room until 10 months and loved it. FWIIW, DH went back to work when DS was 3 weeks and I started working part-time when DS was 4 months . DS now 18 months and breastfeedimg still going well.

[Octaviapink]

grappy I was using shock in its medical sense. All shock is generated neurogenically, which is why no injury is necessary to cause shock. It can be generated by something heard, or witnessed, or otherwise experienced. Neurogenic shock leads to hypovolaemic shock (circulatory shock, as you describe). I was at a seminar last week where a paramedic-instructor was talking about this as the most recent theory on SIDS when all other factors are accounted for.

[boognish]

I was able to cosleep with ds with a real sense of security due to:
(a) firm mattress in my double bed; (b) exiling dh to spare room; (c) dreamgenii pillow curled round ds to create safe nest. I don't think I'd have rolled onto him anyway; bfing mums are supposed to have an instinct that keeps them from doing it, and research (too lazy to dig it up) has found that we stop sleeping deeply anyway for this very reason.

[MoonFaceMamaaaaargh]

grappy i'm on my phone so can't c&p or flit between pages. But the link you provide does not give any evidence re mortality. It gives four risks quoted from fsids. They are all easily avoidable.Don't drink, use a bed rail, place baby half way down the bed, don't use a quilt.

There are emotive quotes used both ways.

The pro cosleeping paragraph sites studies that show bennefits such as bf. I would consider this evidence. Seemingly you would not.

So sober mum and baby are correctly positioned with correct bedding...what is the risk of having a baby in bed with you?

Yes, we are very bad at assessing risk. But that does not mean we always take more risks. Often we perceive risks to be greater than they are.

[bonkers20]

#1's snuffling etc did disturb us alot, but with #2 I just loved to hear it. I suppose you soon learn what you need to react to.

Macaroona you may well find your sleep patterns change when you have a baby and you sleep more lightly. Your DH sounds lovely. I think it's a matter of keeping within the recommendations (6 months with you etc), but then working out what is best for you all (then changing it a few weeks later because nothing stays the same for long with infants!).

[MoonFaceMamaaaaargh]

monkoray beds "designed for babies" are a relivitly new thing. Along with those beds come mothers, tired and trying to do the best thing by bf...removing the baby from it's specially designed bed... taking it to their bed or the sofa to feed...Falling asleep and so risking sids.

For me it is far preferable to prepare a safe environment for cosleeping and make sure i am in a fit state to do it.

You can bf in the recovery position meaning you can not fall on your baby even if you fall asleep. I was glad of this rest. Cellular blankets are great for grown ups as well as babies. You can get rails for the edge of the bed and the baby can sleep in the middle of the space.

The risks are very easily minimised and the advantages can be great.

[Finallygotaroundtoit]

The thing people need to remember when asking about comparative risk in SIDS studies is that these studies are compiled largely from asking bereaved and distraught parents about what happened and taking notes on the 'scene'.

The police are also involved.

Parents may have been drinking or taking drugs and be understandably reluctant to report this - so this is thought to be under reported.
Of course, SIDS also occur when parents have done neither and follow guidelines to the letter.

Researchers also ask what they think are important questions but may omit others - in the past many did not record how the baby was fed (breast or bottle). It is only recently that there has been standardisation in SIDS studies in the UK

[harecare]

You'll definitely want the baby beside you (in cot) so you can feed when needed. Regarding disturbing your DH - he'll have to deal with some disruption with a new baby, it's to be expected. I saw it as my duty to keep DDs quiet in the night as I could catch up on sleep in the day whereas DP couldn't. My babies were very quiet, I'd wake immediately they needed a feed - I think you'll sleep less deeply once the baby comes so fed before they had a chance to cry and they'd go back to sleep after a quick nappy change (put changing table in your bedroom too).
My SIL would hear her DCs in the night, tap my brother and he'd bring the baby to her to feed lying down, once DC had fed she'd tap my brother and he'd put the baby back to sleep. She never got up at all!
I have friends who had a lot of trouble feeding and settling babies in the night so they or DH would end up in the spare room. If DH needs to sleep in the spare room it will be because he needs his sleep, not because he doesn't want to be with you and the baby.
The new baby phase doesn't last forever, but it can put a strain on your relationship. If you're prepared for that it can make it easier.

[grappy]

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh I refer to the pros being emotive only in their presentation.
For example: "It felt like the right thing", " I love the closeness" rather than: "Children who co-slept are shown to do better at X"

Whereas the arguments against have some evidence presented regarding increased mortality.

There does not seem to be any clear definition of safe co-sleeping. Other than the tautological definition that "My baby has been safe co-sleeping with me, ergo I am applying safe co-sleeping".

Is it simply referring to avoiding the known increased risk factors such as alcohol and smoking? It does still leave the other main risk factor of co-sleeping, which is having the child in bed with you.

Without any evidence to separate the risks, I would use what facts we do have. As a group, people ar every bad at assessing risks.

[MoonFaceMamaaaaargh]

also i'm not sure there really needs to be a study that does seperate safe and unsafe in order to come up with the safe cosleeping guidelines.

If a study shows that x number of deaths involved drugs then "no drugs" goes on the guidelines. If y number of deaths involved bedding, then the guidelines say "no heavy bedding" etc etc...

The unsafe cosleeping shows us exactly what proved to be unsafe.

I'm not a scientist so my methodology may be flawed.

[monkoray]

Macaroona, don't worry about being a heavy sleeper, there is something about your babies cry that will guarantee you wake up.

[cowboylover]

Backing up what everyone else has said.

I tried co-sleeping but it didn't really suit either of us well as she likes to stretch and I was to worried to sleep!

Our room is not big enough for a cot but we have just got a swing crib as it's smaller and doesn't take up much more room than the basket. I am BF and it's great just lifting her in with us to feed as I'm comfy and go back to sleep quickly after I put her back.

On the not waking up front I am someone known to fall asleep in a nightclub so takes a lot to wake me up but when she wants me I'm there and when she's just chatting to herself I sleep through it.

My DH works 12 hour shifts and he went in the spare room for a few days but missed us so came back in and he usually just sleeps thro when I'm feeding ect.

[monkoray]

sorry finallygotaroundtoit but the reason i quoted a study that lumped "safe" co-sleeping with accidental co-sleeping is that I have not seen any research or evidence suggesting there is a difference.

Even the UNICEF guidelines helpfully provided by crazyhairlady state "So the safest place for a baby to sleep is in a cot by your bed". The guidelines go on to explain how to limit the risk of suffocation, overheating or being trapped while co-sleeping in an adult bed "not designed for babies". I

[MoonFaceMamaaaaargh]

grapp quickly looking at the page you link to...the "risks" it outlines are all easily avoidable situations.

The "emotive"pros seem to be about providing better rest and psychological wellbeing for mother and baby.

So you can easily make changes to avoid those risks, and still get the advantages.

I'll have that option thanks.

There have been many threads on this before which no doubt site studies. As i said i'm not in a position to provide any. Do you have any that show safe cosleeping carries the same risks as the unplanned kind?

[superjobee]

DD was in our bed room till 6 months. my mates wee DD is 13 months and still in their room

we intend on moving when DS gets to around 6 months so he will have his own room but failing that he'll be in with DD and we want him to be sleeping thru before we foist him on her

[Macaroona]

Rita

[RitaMorgan]

Macaroona - I used to be a deep sleeper and move round loads in the bed, but I would somehow be aware of everything ds was doing and where he was in my sleep. If he was in bed with me I'd stay in exactly the same position all night

My DP unfortunately does not have this skill - sometimes I'd get up in the morning to have a bath and leave the baby in the cot next to DP asleep in the bed. I'd hear the baby crying from the bathroom, and when I'd go back into the bedroom DP would still be fast asleep with the baby screaming literally 6 inches from his head

[grappy]

I would be interested to see any research separating "safe" co-sleeping vs unplanned co-sleeping.

I would assume these guidelines are based on some kind of evidence. I can't find any on mumsnet though, perhaps you could provide a link.

What I can see here seems to be the emotive arguments for co-sleeping vs the statistical risks against.

[crazyhairlady]

sorry link should be www.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Baby_Friendly/Leaflets/3/sharingbedleaflet.pdf

[Macaroona]

I hope so! I have a good knack of sleeping through the cat clambering over us during weekend lie-ins to demand breakfast, so I hope I wake to feed baby!

[crazyhairlady]

Would agree with those who have said with breastfeeding especially having baby in with you, either co-sleeping or in cot with side off next to your bed is the best option. It is also recommended by Unicef who do a great guide to safe co sleeping at ((www.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Baby_Friendly/Leaflets/3/sharingbedleaflet.pdf))
You will be so aware of your baby that you can safely co-sleep, obviously following the advice they give.

On your DH, my partner is less disturbed by DS2 as he is less tuned in to him. But he is going to have to adjust and bed swapping/hopping as others have said can be used.

[Finallygotaroundtoit]

Monkoray, lumping together unsafe cosleeping (on a couch/ 'witnessed overlaying'/ aspyhxia) with safe bedsharing is not very helpful.

Just because some people shouldn't bedshare doesn't mean that no one should.
There is lots of evidence that safe bedsharing supports breastfeeding and is the biological norm for humans as long as non smoking & no alcohol or drugs are involved

[KenDoddsDadsDog]

I couldn't sleep when DD moved out of our room. It was the snuffling that gave me reassurance! Drop sided cot great idea.

[Eglu]

Macaroona you may be a deep sleeper now, but I can pretty much guarantee you will wake up to your baby very easily.