quality care for young children DOES NOT exist in SOME private setting

[kiow8]

i have worked in various types of childrens settings(both private and Sure Start)i believe that Sure Start settings are good places for children to be as the staff do genuinely care for the children, they are given healthy meals made with good ingredients and staff are much, much happierthan private nursery staff(better pay,work conditions,ratios in place more etc)

private settings are entirely different.as i have worked in them i have seen what goes on behind the scenes, i believe that i can give parents an idea of what does happen at private setings.

please note that i am not talking about any private settings in particular, just what i ahve seen in different private settings that seems to be an all over thing-
1.young babies who cannot move being left in
bouncy chairs all day, except for sleep,feeding and nappy changes. staff are often told not to pick up the baby for fear of "spoiling them" and having them liking attention too much.
2.young babies who cry are often called"spoilt"
3.lots of bitching about childrens families.one mother(whos baby was a rather small and dainty 6 month old)was accused of "trying to keep the baby small"by not feeding her meat and bread like the OLDER babies,when infact this baby ate well and has family members who are gluten sensitive.
4.a carer smack the back of a young childs hand.
5.frequent use of the word "naughty".
6.really rubbish food-cheap sausages and fish fingers,over indulgence in chips and white pasta, tinned fruit, powedered custard and sponge cake that is bought in in tubs and heated in the kitchen,yoghurts that are supermarket basic, full of sugar and cost 7p
each.
7.a soil area at the back of the setting that the children like to play with toy cars and other toys in.this area does not have a lid and i have seen cats jumping in and out of here.
8.one setting has radiators that are covered with BLANKETS to "protect" children from burns.
9.toilets frequently get smelly and dirty during the day.they are cleaned at the end of the day but staff do not keep on top of them during the day, so children often have to use dirty toilets.
10.children who have had toileting accidents left in wet underwear as staff do not want to change them.
11. too many children in the setting.one setting was registered for 15 children but would take up to 20 on any one day, also instead of the legal 1:3 adult to baby carer, this setting used 1:4 for babies.

these are just some of the things that i have seen in various childrens settings and just thought i would mention them here.

[mumeeee]

Not all private settings are like this. I have worked in several Nuseries as I do supply work at the moment. Most of the Nuseries have been very caring towards the childre and always in ratio.

[hellywobs]

I've heard nursery staff bitching about parents. The main one seemed to be how selfish parents were if they booked a day off work and had an adult day (leaving the child in nursery), maybe having lunch for mum's birthday or something. "Why don't they spend the time with their kids"? So, once you have kids, you are never allowed to go out without them again - did you know that?

If you think a nursery is sub-standard then report them to Ofsted and make sure they make an unannounced inspection.

[muffle]

Is that you Steve?

I would have to defend our nursery against most of these accusations - it is very good. However some of your ideas of poor care might not be agreed on by everyone. For example I am happy for nursery to feed DS white pasta, use the word "naughty" (I actually like him to know what constitutes good and bad behaviour) and as for talking about parents behind their backs, I'm sure they do. I have had some proper pfb moments and they'd be perfectly reasonable to laugh about me. I've worked in a caring job too and had a whinge or a giggle about clients - I would like to see a caregiving institution where that doesn't happen. It doesn't mean they don't care and can't give good care.

[Lizipads]

The OP seems to be making the point that private sector = profit motive = bad.

Like private schools and private hospitals, I found my private nursery to have top-notch staff paid above the going rate, first class facilities and decent food.

I'm a Guardian reading liberal but, fgs, just because you pay for something doesn't mean the owner is a Blofeld type figure trying to take over the world.

My dts are 6 now but, tell you waht, their bursery years were fan-bloody-tastic and everything positive about them is a credit to the staff who looked after them and the owner and managers.

Knickers to posts like this and bollocks to Biddulph, I'm happy with the choices I made - neither the op nor Mr B know my children (and given how both of them drone on, I would not leave either of them in charge

[dilemma456]

Message withdrawn

[scottishmummy]

there are well documented murderous GP,rapist dentist,murderous nurses,fraudulent solicitor in fact in any profession there are murky individuals

does this mean you never use a GP,solicitor,etc again.no it does not.and neither does it mean the inappropriate actions of minority should taint the reputation of the majority

the majority of non accidental child injuries happen at home. the majority perpetrators of physical/emotional abuse to children are parents.

does this mean allparents are abusive.no of course not.

unfortunately,in any role that involves human interaction someone somewhere will act inappropriately

yes,there are rough nurseries.but there is also a certain kind of nay sayer who will seek any opportunity or post to cast aspersions on any nursery as baby borstal establishments

[frasersmummy]

fgs what is it with nursery bashing these days

us working mums do feel bad about leaving our precious children with anyone

why make us feel worse with this type of scaremongering??

It drives me nuts

[nurseryvoice]

Oh also, whenIve employed staff or when i am doing the rotas I prefer to have the higher qualified staff even though i have to pay them more, as all my staff are on a pay scale. I do not employ anyone under 18 (they cant be included in numbers anywayt so whats the point?)
I know I run a high quality setting and there are others out there too.

[nurseryvoice]

Maybe Im a crap business woman?
Yes I have to make a profit to pay overheads such as rent, insurance wages, decent food (that I eat too and im damn picky)
However this is my reputation on the line, everyone knows me and I am a high achiever I like to do things properly.
My staff are paid more than any other nursery in the area, they have paid breaks, not when babies are sleeping as i pay for one extra member of staff all day to ensure a top quality service ensusring staff have time out to do paperwork, have breaks and generally can call on this person if they need to. Our baby room only takes 9 I do not believe more in a room is conducive to a babies development.
I adore children, I thought for years I couldnt have one so my nursery became my baby, developing into a really good nursery with trained motivated staff. It is hard to keep them motivated but thats what a good manager / leader is able to do.
On the other foot, a new massive purpose built nursery has just opened near us. #
This has been set up purely as a high profit making business by the business owners who do not even go into the nuresry but have employed a level 3 to be manager. This has not affected us yet,,,, as it is too big in my opinion and I would hate my baby to be cared for in a room which can hold 33 under twos!

I empower my staff to report anything they do not like. I even tell students that, not that anyone has because my team are extremely hard working and seem to like children. always a bonus!
Parents please dont worry, you have to go with your gut feeling, dont pay attention to posh looking rooms, it is the manager and the team that matter.

There, got that off my chest and the bubba is wanting me again!

[juneybean]

I agree with Purepurple about the maths and english, I said this on a nursery nursing forum once and was shot down lol...

[Squiffy]

Gosh, what a lot of crap nurseries you seem to have worked for, kiow8. And not a single good one.

Sorry, but that says shedloads more about you than the state of nursery provision in this country.

[willowthewispa]

Really, everyone working in a nursery should be qualified imo, one in each room is not enough! The new Early Years Professional status is a step in the right direction, qualifications and status in Early Years should be raised but the govt are being so half hearted about it as there's almost no extra funding!

Aside from management, I think most of the problems in nurseries come down to money and profits. Lots of unqualified girls = cheaper, crap food = cheaper. Cheating ratios, taking on too many children = all about making money.

It's not suprising that even good nursery nurses lose motivation when they know they're getting paid less for the day than parent's pay for their childs place. Not suprising that children are shouted at to go to sleep or pinned down if adults only get an (unpaid) break once all the children are sleeping.

[nurseryvoice]

purepurple you talk a lot of sense Ive been saying all that for years,

When I said earlier about silly young girls who have level 3s and think they know how to be a manager then this ob has a loy to do with experience if youre young you dont have much exp. however take yr point about older managers not necessarily being any good either. As purepurple said often nursery nurses have worked their way up. Management is an underated career. I was a manager before I went into childcare so have a wide experience of life and how to manage people.

I would also like to see qualifications raised as they have been dumbed down over the years. Some level 3's do not have a clue!
Good manager = good nursery TRUE....

excuse bad typing baby onknee

[purepurple]

Not another one of these threads.
I work in a private day nursery and yes, I have seen bad practice in my career.
But, bad practice happens in every industry, in hospitals, in schools, in shops, in offices.
Nurseries aren't any different. Some are great, some are not so great.
The difference between the two is very often the manager. Most managers are nursery nurses that have worked their way up. Being a manager is very different to being a nursery nurse and some great nursery nurses are not great managers.
A great manager = a great nursery.

FWIW, I would like to see the qualifications for nursery nurses raised, with them having to pass English and Maths with the minimum qualification being a level 3. I would also love to see proper government investment in the private sector and the wages subsidised so that children get a consistent and appropriate service.

[Twinklemegan]

Incidentally, it's a good thing to occasionally turn up at unexpected times. I've never done so deliberately but it's happened from time to time. I've always been very happy with what I've seen.

[Twinklemegan]

Willowthewispa - I take your point for babies who can't talk about their day. But my DS is 2.10 and perfectly capable of holding a conversation with me. He has never once uttered anything that's made me concerned. He's as happy as larry when I drop him off and when I pick him up. He talks about his key worker and his friends all the time. I don't accept that I wouldn't know if things weren't right.

I am not a perfect parent. I don't expect perfection from DS's nursery. And tbh, I am not at all bothered about minor incidents or failures of best practice if they don't affect his overall care and wellbeing. I'm not saying the concerns the OP raises, if true, are minor, but where do you draw the line? The inspection report for his first nursery raised concerns over children eating food directly off highchair trays - so what! It also raised concerns that there wasn't enough emphasis on "diversity", whatever that means to a 10 month old. I couldn't have cared less.

[moondog]

Really?
Tonnes of parents are too stupid to suss out whether their child's education is shite or not.
Fact is, you will never know what goes on anywhere if you are not there.

[Twinklemegan]

No, I'm just saying that deep down these parents will probably already know that the nursery isn't great, but they might be completely stuck with it. I don't buy the OP's view that parents are too stupid to be able to tell whether the nursery is any good or not.

[willowthewispa]

If people are knowingly sending their child to a crap nursery cos they feel they have no choice, then that's very sad all round.

However, I also think their are parents who think their crap nursery is great. I've seen/heard some things that have made me very uncomfortable in nurseries but then at pick up time it's all smiles and cuddles and "she's had a lovely day".

[moondog]

I'm not with you on that TM. Even if you have no choice are you saying you would rather not know if provision is shit?

[Twinklemegan]

Willowthewispa - if parents have any kind of choice then they will not have their child in a nursery they know to be poor. If they are very unlucky and have no choice, then sure they're unlikely to admit to themselves or others that the nursery is not good. But they're not going to be feeling great about it either, and probably feel very guilty having to leave their DC.

We had DS in the poor nursery because it was literally the only one for 40 miles, with no local childminders either. We were lucky and we were able to take the choice not to use childcare after all. Many parents effectively have Hobson's choice, and it's not fair to rub their noses in it.

[violethill]

What a surprise - the OP hasn't returned! Obviously off to start another game now.

Next, please!

[Twinklemegan]

Oh right, yeah

DS has been in a nursery that I most definitely didn't think was great. He wasn't happy and I withdrew him. What matters most to me is
a) DS is happy and has friends
b) the staff are happy in their job, DS likes them and they're enthusiastic and interested in him
c) the food is good enough
d) plenty of time outdoors
e) varied activities and learning

Two of DS's nurseries have fulfilled all of the above (the first was wonderful but we moved house). The other fulfilled all of the Care Commission's criteria, had a really good report and didn't engage in any bad practices, but the staff were bored and disinterested, and DS hated being there.