3.5 year old unsettled at nursery and boy upsets her. advice

[Roadyjoe22]

Hi I’m just looking for peoples option and advice, my daughter started nursery a year ago at 2.5.
irs a very small nursery with only about 10-15 children’s however they do take on babies from 3 months up to 5 years. they do Forrest school which is great as she loves being outdoors and there is 4 staff members which I also thought was great as the nursery on my older children’s school for example have 3 staff to about 25-30 children. She can find busy places overwhelming so I thought this Smaller nursery Setting seemed ideal. When she first started she was abit hesitant for for a week or two but then settled in fine. For a good few months dropping her off was easy and I felt she was enjoying it. Her talking came on leaps and bounds also. However the last 3-4 months, have been difficult not only is she crying every single time I drop her off saying she wants me and wants to come home with me and crying for me but she’s also telling me all weekend she doesn’t want to go and when she gets up on a morning that she does not want to go to nursery. I should make it clear as well that there is a little boy there that has pushed her quite a few times, he also targeted her as she’s very kind hearted and loves to play with everyone and has never been mean to anyone before he started saying things to upset her and do things to upset and because she cried when he did this he continued to do this to her as it got a reacting he wanted ( according to nursery) he has pushed her, I’ve also whitnesss him ramming a scooter into her. She now just takes it which is really sad and doesn’t cry, and when he’s saying things to her she just kind of stands there and take it, I’ve told her to say that’s not nice and move away from him , but she doesn’t. However nursery now say that they play together a lot and that there “ fiends” now, however based on his mood he does still push and shove her sometimes or say things to her. But according to nursery the rest of the time they play together happily … however I’m not sure how comfortable I am with that Although I have whitnesssd her running around chasing him on a bike and playing running around in nursery, I have also witnessed while the adults aren’t looking him ran a bike into her and also when I’ve come to collect her infront of me he’s said things that are upsetting to her .. not bothered that I’m stood there. I’ve whitnessed it numerous times on a 5 minute pick up when the staff aren’t with them, yet the staff thinks they are playing nicely… I do wonder if there left alone with the staff thinking he’s being nose but he’s not and my daughter Jusr takes it and hence why she doesn’t want to go everyday. Would you want to go somewhere that someone is blowing hot and cold with you beint friend then not and saying nasty things and pushing you .. no. I’ve mentioned it to nursery but there adamant she’s fine when I leave and that they do play nice togerher. But as I said I wonder if they just don’t watch them enough to no that she’s just putting up with what he’a doing. There isn’t really many other kids her age so she rarely is with anyone else to play with hence why I think she will wants to play with him and maybe he juar downs wave her be as I’ve seen him near her constantly from the minute I drop her off .. she’s very kind and sweet and her older brother has additional needs she’s very patient with him and they are complete opposites, my daughter is not ever mean to this boy ar nursery nor has she ever pushed him back, it just makes me so sad thinking someone’s mean to her all the time n she just want to be his friend .. however I question if I move her there could well be another child who isn’t very nice to her , but I will say however she loves helping with the younger babies at nursery. When she first started they only had 1 or 2 babies however they’ve taken on a lot more recently, and I wonder if the staff don’t watch the older ones enough anymore and don’t see what my daughter is dealing with when playing “ nicely “ with this little boy .. I hope
qjay am saying makes sense . Could anyone advise there thoughts .. I have arranged a meeting with nursery. As I do feel everything just gets brushed off. I should also state she even potty trained over 6 months and never wets herself at home, out and about, with grandparents anywhere but has started wetting herself at nursery to ..

[Wondergym]

I'd move her to another setting. I had this with my autistic child - she didn't react or cry and that was seen as her being okay - she was not okay.

[Roadyjoe22]

Thank you for your replying. I will definitely look into moving her, it’s just all the other nursery have 30 children and I wonder if she’d find it to overwhelming in a busy setting. see I have quite a few suspicion as well about my daughter being autistic , bare in mind her older brother is autistic and adhd and I have ADHD, so it does run in the family. However she doesn’t do anything consistently enough for anyone to listen to me that I’ve spoken to and she has hit her milestones on time. She also seems to Mask infront of others. Unfortunately when I ask her nursery if they see any signs of autism to or have any suspicion of additional needs they say “ no not really” and that she “seems fine” they do say she’s anxious tho. But I don’t think there very helpful in this instance either. . I know irs unrelated to what I’ve asked on the post but Would you possibly Consider private messaging me with information on how your daughter presented at this age as autistic? I’d really appreciate if possible. I wonder if this is also why she just stands and takes it and appears fine to them. Thank you

[skkyelark]

I would also look for another nursery for her. Even if the staff worked very hard to keep this boy and your daughter separate, or to separate them whenever they stopped playing nicely, that leaves your daughter without any peers to play with. Even if she played beautifully with this boy, by 3.5, she ought to have some choice of similar-aged children to play with and have the chance to play in a slightly bigger group.

I understand what you're saying about a big, busy nursery, but I think to get a peer group for her, you're going to need a somewhat bigger nursery. I'd look closely at how the space is structured, how the year groups are divided, and also the 'feel' of the play and activity. I'd ask upfront how they would support a child who struggles with busy places and with asserting herself if another child is unkind. Hopefully then you can find another nursery that you think would work for her.

Big, open-plan spaces might not suit her; a nursery in a converted house with separate rooms might be better. For example, the nursery my daughters attend has two (connected) rooms for the 3-5 year-olds, and if they're inside for any length of time, the art room is usually open as well, so then it's 24(ish) children flowing between three rooms.

Do the rooms have at least one cosy, semi-enclosed space a child can retreat to for some peace and quiet? The outdoor space should as well. When you visit, how loud and chaotic does it seem? If the space is well-structured with different areas and the activities are well-suited to the children, it can be surprisingly calm!

[Roadyjoe22]

Hi thank you for your reply, I will definitely try and find an alternative nursery, the one she is currently in is just one space, same outside it’s just one open plan space, no separate rooms. I had also considered a childminder, more 1-1 and smaller home like setting, but as your stated maybe more peers to play with in a larger nursery may work well for her and possibly if there are more rooms and age groups. There is a nursery connected to my sons school, and they have separate spaces and a quiet area and I think around 25-30 children but I’m not sure if there are separate age related groups or activities. Although it does seem more structured which may be beneficial. Ive collected her at pick up today and she was just in a state okaying when I got there, asif she’d completely zoned out, the little boy also cut her off and stood infront of her when she spotted me and came to run to me telling her no and cutting her off he also tried to block me from getting through the door to her. Nursery staff seem oblivious and just said how they’d had a good day and played nicely together all day, but in the 5 minutes I’m there what I see is not what I’d call nice! My daughter also told me when we left that he’d pushed her and a staff member took her outside to play. She doesn’t fully communicate enough to expand on what’s happened in that situation or anything else he’s said to her during that altercation other than him saying no to her. But nursery failed to tell me he had pushed her just that they played nicely. I definitely have an odd gut feeling, and I’ve whitnessed what he does to her with my own eyes and the staff aren’t looking while he’s doing it, and she just stands and takes it. so they think she’s fine. She’s very worn out today from it all, it’s really sad, I have a meeting with them this week but they don’t seem to see a problem.

[skkyelark]

I hope they'll be receptive to your concerns, even if it's just to support her whilst you find somewhere else. Poor poppet! It's not exactly what you want her to be learning about friendship and playing with others, is it?

A childminder also crossed my mind, but I think I'd have a couple reservations. One, yes, is the peer group question – by 3.5 years, a lot of people who use childminders for their babies and toddlers add in some school nursery to get that peer group, exposure to a wider range of children, etc. So that would effectively be two new settings for her to get used to, which seems like a lot. On the other hand, maybe it would be perfect for her, a relaxed 'home base' before and after a 9-12 or 9-3 stint at school nursery? The other is that childminders often go out quite a bit to stay-and-plays, toddler classes, soft play, etc. So that's potentially multiple busy, noisy environments for her to get used to.

[Roadyjoe22]

Thank you, it’s really not what I would like to learn about friendships no and it’s a shame that there isn’t many other children her age there now, I did get told she likes to play with two children slightly older than her sometimes but they will be leaving in 6 months to go to school. So it’s not asif she has them throughout either. I did have a meeting today, nursery did listen to concerns and assured me from now on they will make sure the two are fully supervised while playing together even if it seems they are playing nicely. I went to pick my daughter up and he was there with her but I clearly heard the staff tell him not to do something he was doing to her when I got there and they also asked him to move away from the door when I was coming through as they could see he was abours to block me getting to my daughter again when she was trying to come for a cuddle . I am still going to look at moving her to a different nursery, possibly the school one, but hopefully for now the nursery do follow through with supervising them at all times and trying to redirect them to play elsewhere if he’s not playing nicely or being nice. There is a kind of group chat for the nursery and his mum is on there , how appropriate would it be for me to politely message her and ask if we could have a chat? Maybe she could speak with him regarding what he’s doing, but I’m not sure if me contacting his mum is appropriate. It’s just if it was my child I’d want to no if he’s upsetting someone so much they don’t want to go to nursery anymore and constantly saying things and pushing and shoving her. If that was my son doing it to someone I would be very upset. Again I am also worried how it would go down with the staff if she let them no I’d contacted her also . I just want to make sure she’s ok until I’ve got her into somewhere else

[skkyelark]

Sorry, the end of the week rather got away from me. It's good that nursery will monitor them more closely, that gives you a bit more breathing space to try to find the right setting to move her to. How has she seemed the last few days?

Approaching the boy's mum is tricky – I see why you want to, but there are lots of ways for that conversation to go wrong. I've never been in that situation, but the usual advice on here is not to, to let the school (or in this case nursery) handle it, unless you've got quite an established relationship with the other parent.

[Roadyjoe22]

Thank you for getting back to me :) I think you’re right after thinking about it I don’t think I’ll approach his parents, I think I’ve just been desperate to help her it’s difficult to think properly with what’s best to do. Since Wednesday
He’s actually been off ill the last few days of the week and she’s had the BEST time there and come out so much less drained and gone in so much happier the following day, I feel awful that he will most likely be back Monday and her happiness be short lived when she realises he’s there and if/when he says or does something nasty to her. It’s such a shame. Hopefully nursery do keep a proper eye on them next week, I am contacting another nursery on Monday and hopefully arranging a look round and chat with them