Nursery closures

[sallycinamon]

I have just found out that my daughter's lovely nursery is closing in 6 weeks. This is because the Local Authority is enforcing the Code of Practice which says that nurseries are no longer allowed to 'top-up' the pre-school funding for 3/4 year olds by asking for a contribution from parents. Basically the funding they get for the 'free' sessions does not cover the cost of actually delivering the session.

I know it sounds over-dramatic (there are worse things that could happen i know!) but I am so upset about it. DD has been so happy there. It provides excellent child care, the staff are wonderful, it is always oversubscribed and has a local reputation which is second to none. It came as such a shock to everyone. I feel sorry for the staff. It is also now proving very stressful finding alternative child care arrangements at such short notice.


Have any other mumsnetters had a similar experience?

[Ladymuck]

Seems to be randomly applied. I know of a private nursery in Sutton which operated in term-time school hours and that has now shut due to the new regs. The business effectively got taken ovwer by a private school in a neighbouring borough which doesn't seem to be enforcing the rules as much, so the school just knocks £539.50 of the fees each term.

I do find it scarey that this move seem to reduce paretnal choice so much. This areas has previously suffered when the funding for 3 year olds was not given to all nurseries in the borough, just in taargeted areas. Together with a somewhat uneven approach by Ofsted I pity the playgroup/nursery owners.

[Katymac]

Thanks - I have done - I am not opening til feb (if at all) so don't woryy about the time scale

[IlanaK]

I can't CAT, but feel free to email me: [email protected]

I am out for the day though so it will be this evening before I reply.

[Katymac]

"request" even...not "offer"

[Katymac]

Ilana - I would be very interested to "see" how the system at your nursery works - If I were to CAT you could you put me in touch with someone who could explain it? or even send me a break-down?

I realise this is a very cheeky offer but I am struggling working out how I will be able to afford to run the sessions at my nursery

[IlanaK]

I read this with interest as it has affected me in two different ways. I own a nursery in an area outside London (a labour area where they are enforcing this new act). We have had to introduce a 2.5 hour session which we did not have before as well as do a very clear breakdown of our longer session costs to show it is not unfairly charged for parents who take that up over the shorter 2.5 hour free session. It has been a bit of a nightmare to administrate but is working fine now. We have quite a lot of take up for the free sessions.

I also have a three yer old (and we live in Westminster in London wich is a Tory area). He attends a private day nursery where I fully expected to be able to have just the 2.5 hour free session from this September. Having spoken to the head of early yeras in Westminster, this is not the case. All the inner london Tory boroughs are refusing to uphold the act and will not be forcing private providers to provide the free provision.

While I can understand why this act is a problem for London nurseries, as a parent I am furious. The government SHOULD be differentiating this money so that London nurseries get proportionatly more, and I fully back anyone compaigning for this. In the meantime however, I object to some councils deciding they can flout the law.

My son will be pulled out of nursery in September as we cannot afford it any longer. This is the whole point of this act, to ensure parental choice in childcare, whch I will no longer have. Although there are 11 state providers in Westminster who do have the free sessions, none of them are JEwish, which my son't day nursery is. Therefore, my parental choice has been taken away.

[Katymac]

As i understand it it is compulsary - but somne councils chose to ignor it..............

[sallycinamon]

Have just read with interest the thread I started yesterday. It seems quite a complicated issue but there is no doubt the Government have f*ed up! I just don't understand their logic. They want women to return to work after having children yet they seem determined to make it as difficult as possible for us. The fact that nurseries are being forced to close or opt out is doing us no favours.

I have written a rather lengthy letter of complaint which I intend to email to the Chief Executive and the Director for Children and Young People at our nursery (both of whom are women incidentally!) I fully expect them to pass the buck and say I should complain to the government.
What do you guys think? I don't really understand the issue that well. Is it compulsory or is it up to the discretion of each Local Authority.

Perhaps I should just be in the audience of 'Question Time' the next time it comes to our area and ask some really awkward questions!

[babyboo1and2]

thanks katymac

was starting to head into a full on panic

sorry for those of you affected by it

[Katymac]

This only affects children from the term after they are 3 - when "free" nursery education starts

[babyboo1and2]

feeling stupid as i cant seem to work out what everyone is saying and if/how it will affect my dd

basically she has just finished at her cm (due to moving house) and i have got her a part time place at a nursey starting in sept

i assume the nursery is private as we will pay around £32 per day but i was told the nursery does have to have 20% of its children from key workers so dont know if this makes a difference

my dd will be 2 in nov,

am starting to worry i wont have a nursery place come sept

[paddingtonbear1]

yes, here in cheshire you get charged about £6850 per year - for a 4 day week!
I preferred not to think about it!

[Bubble99]

Katy. Sorry. It is £1500 here too.

[Katymac]

Even in Norfolk a F/T child would be charged about £7250 & the grant is only for £1500 a year

Gosh Bubble does that mean we get more here than in London

Apparently it is £7.78 a session....or could I have got that amount wrong?

[paddingtonbear1]

thanks bubble - yes that does sound right!
dd will go to school soon, so will be leaving nursery. If we ever had another child I would use the same nursery - goodness knows what the govt would have conjured up by then!

[Bubble99]

And

The grant is for term time only.

Here, that means £1200 a year or £400 per term.

Which covers zip diddly squat in London nurseries, and many other areas.

Our overheads and salaries bill, alone, is frightening.

[Bubble99]

paddington. The grant cheques are paid termly. So, it sounds as though your nursery uses your grant against a whole months fees as soon as they get the cheque rather than spreading it out over several months.

We pay our parents the grant in the form of a cheque each term. IE. We apply for the funding (we have to do this) parents continue to pay their normal monthly amount and then ,each term, we give them their grant for the term back.

We (and our parents) find it easier to stick top paying a set amount each month and then getting a cheque back, rather than re-calculating and changing standing order payments.

Either system is OK.

[gess]

ah thanks bubble- that explains why each term the school (ds2 is there as well and has been receiving the grant but now is too old) kept saying they weren't sure how they would be able to charge us.

This city very short on LA pre-school places- and most are available in the Sure-Start areas (lots of deprived areas), so there are whole areas of the city without sure start.

[paddingtonbear1]

I am confused! dd goes to private nursery, and has since 6 months. She is now in her pre-school year, but we've stuck with the same nursery as she's happy there and it fits in with our working hours. She has been getting the govt grant, but it hasn't worked out that we get a cheaper bill each month. Nursery said they weren't allowed to do it like that, so some months we basically pay almost nothing and other months full whack! The nursery don't like this and neither do we as it's a budgeting nightmare. Are we 'topping up'? Will they no longer be able to do this?

[Bubble99]

That'll be the one, Katy.

[Bubble99]

gess. If you are in London or any other city or the SE of England you may find that your council is turning a blind eye as ours is, at present.

Any area which already has a lack of pre-school places is not going to be keen to enforce this.

Hopefully Gordon will be too busy with other stuff now to faff around with things he doesn't understand.

[Katymac]

I can't find NDCA (sorry of I'm being dim) - I found a nat daycare ass? is that it?

[Bubble99]

Katy. If you look at the National Daycare Assoc website there was a case-study about this whole issue where a nursery changed to charging for food etc to make up the shortfall.

Parents would have to agree to pay for the 'extras' if they want a place but, from talking to ours, it would be no big deal as they would be paying the same amount as at presesnt, just in a different form, IYSWIM

[gess]

why hasn't it been in the news. Is it being introduced on the sly. I had no idea but it will have a huge impact on us.

[gess]

Oh was a fantastic father he is. Twat.