Mumsnet campaigns and alliances

[JustineMumsnet]

Morning Mumsnetters,
Following on from something someone suggested a while back, we want to think about how we might use our MN muscle to campaign on things that matter to us - like miscarriage, breastfeeding support, premature sexualisation of children (toddler thongs) etc and also how we go about building links with voluntary sector organisations to increase that muscle. Policywonk and Onebat, dynamic duo that they are - have rashly agreed to collect our thoughts/help out a bit with organisation - so we'd be very grateful if you could let us have your two penneth worth on any and all of this stuff.
Many thanks.

[WilfSell]

I'm absolutely with you on the class`thing. It would be easier for wealthy middle class families to defer. This of course is why the govt won't touch deferral I think - to be truly equitable, they'd have to fund it in some way so as not to add in a class disadvantage... But following the Rose report, Balls stated they would propose funding full-time nursery for those parents who felt this was more appropriate for their kids... This may just be pre-election hubris of course. And few would take it up because the kids would still have to stick with their cohort when they finally enter school.

I am in the interesting position of having a late August and an early Sept child! The Sept child has just started school the oldest in his class and is educationally ahead. But he is shy in a way my youngest probably won't be at that point. Intellectually, I might have started the Sept boy at just 4 but he is socially so much better at just 5. But the Aug child is so much more outgoing and who knows he may cope well with school at just 4. I am however having to think about forcing potty training on him NOW though as the others were not fully clean until 3.5 and I dread the stigma of him not managing that at school.

The killer point for me is that this age effect is significant even when controlling for social class: it partly needs resolving for all the August and July born white working class boys in low income families from deprived areas: THEY more than anyone need something that can be changed to be changed...

[linglette]

Thanks for reading carefully Deadworm.

In Denmark, I believe all boys start a year later than all girls (or is this an urban myth ?)

[jackstarbright]

LeninGrad - To answer your last question first. The point is (slightly less than) one year makes a whole world of difference to many children as you will see if you read the reports I've linked to or google 'relative age effect'. The government is very aware of the findings of this research - much of it is referenced in Jim Rose's Primary report published earlier this year.

There is a significant cost associated with the current system including over use of SEN and that a disproportionate number of summer borns fail to reach all the governments education targets. Fixing this problem is something the government is keen to do.

However, as many have rightly pointed out, the government are wary of doing anything that might harm the most disadvantaged children. The evidence from the states is that, where you give parents the choice the more affluent/ aspirational will tend to defer the poorer/less educated parents will not. I would not support an 'open option' to defer.

But, if the 'expert advised' defered option proves unworkable (and I actually think that is for government to decide) why should we not push for more fairness in our educational system?

As I said in my first post, this issue is one of the most common one raised on Mumsnet's educational threads.

[penona]

I am also interested in the summer born issue, having summer born premature twins! Going to be very behind (and physically still tiny) compared to their class.

In years gone by, there was a 'rising 5s' system I think, where you were slowly introduced to school until the term you became 5? Why was this changed? What was wrong with it? (Am curious, I don't know!)

As far as campaigning is concerned, if we are to believe the recent press that the next election will be decided by Mumsnet, then this, which is a political issue, could easily get alot of discussion time/resources/clear policy statements with an election fast approaching. So it would seem a good area on which to campaign if it really is the main area of Education which concerns MN users.

(I would also like to see some campaigning on general SN provisions, esp after Riven's quoting in the DM, we HAVE to use that to some advantage, surely?!)

[Deadworm]

No because the deferred m/c children would become the oldest in the class on admission the following year, alongside non-deferred poorer children

[Deadworm]

I mean, so class numbers the same and teacher faced with m/c children 15 or so months older than youngest in class and needing to be stretched.

[jackstarbright]

Penona - good question. I'll give you the long answer if I may.

First its worth saying that while there is ample evidence of the negative effect of being youngest in year, there is less certainty as to why this is. Most reputable research suggests one (or a combination of) the following:

1. It's just that the younger children are younger and perform accordingly.

1. It's because they get less school time as most schools (used to) phase in reception entry by age.

1. The Matthew effect (to those who have, much is given....) This means that once you start school with an advantage (i.e being more mature, capable and with higher skill levels) your achievements become a self fulfilling prophecy. So, you are told you are able and clever, you get picked for the star role in the school play, the soccer team or the class monitor and you live up to the teacher's expectations. The converse being the lot of the immature younger class members.

The second cause is the easiest to resolve and (no real surprise here) this is the one favoured by our government. Although, to be fair they are (possibly) having a go at the first cause by staggering SATs assessment dates.

If the third cause has a major impact then this is very worrying as the 'Matthew effect' would have greater impact on deprived children with little home support or parental faith in education.

But in the case of your dt's - having supportive parents, natural intelligence and good preparation for school can mitigate much of this. Also, schools vary in how they approach this issue so pick carefully (if you can). The research is about averages, not individuals.

[satc]

I have had the most unpleaseant experience of after being a customer of Specsavers - Bromley branch(having spent over £180) the store manager blatantly refused to let my 2.5 year old (recently potty trained) child use their toilets. She gave the blanket "we are not insured - health and safety reasons". She was also extremely rude but that's another story.

Furious I rang their HQ only to be told that they would rather the child pee on the shop floor that to break health and safety rules. Specsavers are franchised run so each store has it's owner director, the HQ's utmost concern is to keep their franchisee happy.

I have been to stores where a member of staff actually accompanied my son and I to the staff toilet when he needed to use the toilet.

I have since trawled all over the net and have rung the HSE dept, human rights dept, the british toilet association etc etc. The situation is unclear. Whereas business do not have an obligation to let members of the public use their staff toilet because on health and safety grounds, where is the line drawn in respect of children and pregnant women. Can businesses use health and safety as an excuse to "not do anything". Are there any exclusion to health and safety where in certain circumstances, businesses are under an obligation to allow say pregnant women use their toilets. I am still waiting from the department of health to come back with some answers.

Do you have any experience on this issue, and any advise, comments or discussion would be most appreciated.

Carole

[penona]

Thanks JSB, much appreciated. Have not heard of the term 'Matthew effect' before - but it certainly applies to many areas of life!

[PoinsettiaBouquets]

I would love MN to campaign for a national strategy for a unified system/guidelines of autism assessment. As it stands, getting your child diagnosed is a postcode lottery.
In some areas, it is down to one paediatrician to make a subjective assessment on one meeting whereas other areas have a whole assessment programme with multidisciplinary teams pooling their reports from different assessments/observations for a diagnosis to be made.
Just ask on the SN Children board for more info on this totally unfair non-system.

[linglette]

I'm not with you on that one Poinsetta though I do accept the problem you are describing.

There are real differences of opinion about ASD dx and anything that masked that would be unhealthy I think.

If I hadn't read Stanley Greenspan, I still wouldn't understand why all my instincts told me my child wasn't autistic even though he ticked my paed's beloved "boxes". My husband and I might have been pressured into accepting a dx we knew to be false if one subjective view became the "unified" guideline.

I believe we should campaign instead to provide real genuine help, education and services for all children who are demonstrating marked sensory/processing differences from the age of 18 months irrespective of DX and without labels. It might even be better to dx no-one before 5+ but instead provide real help to all with needs. Just think of all the time wasted by parents and professionals pondering the "is it autism or language delay?" problems for the pre-5s, and the crazy situations we have where some language-specific sn schools ban children who go on to get an ASD dx.

A starting point would be for the Government to do a deal with Hanen to make versions of "More than Words" and "It Takes Two to Talk" available free of charge online with back-up forums moderated by speech therapists. This would give those parents who could use them the tools they needed to help their children themselves. Releasing a proportion of the less needy children like this would free up speech therapists' time to help those children who were not responding quickly to the basic Hanen strategies.

[brockyg]

Suggest campaigning focuses on specific outcomes MN wants to achieve on a particular subject of interest to majority of mumsnetters. You can never choose a campaign everyone will support. I'd reject a campaign on childcare vouchers because it's going to be limited to the timeframe of the next general election e.g. will be over by May 2010. Big things are never achieved overnight, so don't necessarily pick something easy, maybe pick something big messy and difficult that might take some time to influence, not party political, with lots of ways of accessing and engaging for different people.

[lalaa]

Apologies if this is repetition: no time to read whole thread.

It would be fantastic if MN could get behind a campaign to increase the number of companies/organisations that offer quality part-time work. It seems to me that organisations need help seeing that work can be done by people job sharing or working part time. I know the Government is trying to do something, but wouldn't it be fantastic if we could get some companies to get on with it!

[Ewe]

Women Like Us are an organisation focused on just that lalaa, not to say MN couldn't get involved too but thought you might like to know!

[InmyheadIminParis]

Hi - only just spotted this thread . MN Campaigns is a fantastic idea .

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but this is a campaign I'd love to see getting off the ground:

The Right To Part-Time Work / Job Share

I know this is a biggie, and will be very difficult to sell, but I've got to the point where I think I'll burst into tears if I hear of how another doing-nicely-in-her-career-thank-you mum has been forced to opted to take a job much below her pay grade / level of expertise so that she can have hours which fit in around child care.

Being forced to take jobs like these are putting women's careers and status in the workforce on hold, widening the pay gap, and also taking a job away from someone who is less experienced or younger.

I don't think the right to demand flexible working goes far enough. I think we should have the right to demand a job-share.

[InmyheadIminParis]

lalaa - sorry, xed posts with you. Seems we're singing from the same hymn sheet at least!

[SJay1]

What about about a campaign about non payment of child support and the loopholes that allow it? At present this totals £3.8 billion that is being withheld from children.

[dreamylady]

Hello

Great idea - I was just thinking about this today. I haven't read all the posts here but I'd like to offer my services in helping with campaigns when you've picked them.

I'm quite one to get on my soapbox on a range of subjects that I think matter (for eg, I started a thread in AIBU yesterday on the early learning centre) and I get a kick out of thinking about how to present arguments backed up with a bit of evidence. I was worried people might find it an abuse of AIBU (you know, like, "keep it light Dreamy we're here to relax!") and so was shyly thinking about proposing a campaigns forum.

So message me if you like or I'll keep an eye on this thread (and read it all properly). In any event I'll eagerly await your first campaign and look forward to supporting it if I can.

[pofacedandproud]

You're the first person Deadworm that has recognised that my ds will be academically disadvantaged by being the oldest in his year. He reads fluently and has done no reading at school, they are learning letters only. I am very worried about this, and am just wondering if you've any suggestions or pointers for me on what to do about it?

I am very very keen on supporting a campaign to make it illegal to ask women to stop breastfeeding in public places.

[Deadworm]

I'd feel a bit gatecrashy to talk about it much on this campaigns thread. Do you want to come over to the Wankers (Fucup) thread to chat about it -- though as it turned out DS1 was youngest not eldest in class (and DS2 is comfortably in middle).

[pofacedandproud]

will do

[Pinkcaz]

Hello All,

I have just been reading through this thread and I think its such a wonderful idea

I am fully backing the Nappy campaign, it seems such a good plan to get that sorted!

I don't think anyone has mentioned the following idea... and there is probably a reason for that... but here goes...

I have recently given birth and I am FF my baby. I completely back all the breastfeeding campaign to get much more support for mums wanting to BF! However I don't think it is right to punish mums who do not BF - either through choice or other reasons.

What I have found is that when buying baby milk that you can't gain loyalty points from anywhere when buying milk, which in itself isn't a huge deal but when I received a voucher from nector for £3 off when spending £20 I read the back and saw that it could not be used on Petrol, Tobacco or BABY MILK???? When the Midwife cam for a visit my mum asked if there was still clinics being run where you could buy milk a little cheaper and she said no it was government policy now not to provide any kind of discounts as it encourages FF!

I think this is disgusting as there are women not being given the best support for BF and then like said earlier are FF within 6 weeks and then being punished for FF by government policy!

Eek rant over... sorry!

[alana39]

Haven't read the whole thing (sorry) but would add support to campaign to standardise incentives to use real nappies. I live just on the border of 2 London boroughs - the next one along offers quite a generous grant to go towards buying real nappies, ours has a line on the waste disposal part of its website that says it encourages the use of cloth nappies (but gives no actual support!

And also to clarify rights of bf mothers / have a clear law like in Scotland would be good.