Sleep training Twins

[doubledup]

Hello mumsnet
first thread so please bear with. Looking for any twin parents with experience of sleep training, our twins are 13m and honestly their sleep now is worse than when they were newborn. They both Start the night in their cots but T1 usually wakes around 12 and can be awake for 2/3 hours. T2 is the better sleeper but if awoken by T1 all hell breaks loose. We’re in a 2bed so they share a room and if one wakes we do tend to bring them into us (aware this is probably creating bad habits but unsure what else to do). They sometimes fall asleep on their bedtime bottle which again I know is creating an association and we’re working on this one. Any help/advice/stories of how much better it gets much appreciated!

[singleandwingingit]

Hi lovely

I have twins who are the same age. How do yours sleep during the day?

No doubt it's what you're trying to do but getting mine into the same sleep pattern was essential.

Mine still have 2 naps during the day. The midday one seems to be getting longer and the afternoon one is starting to get shorter.

I find a substantial dinner at least an hour before bed helps a lot too.

One of mine does sleep slightly better than the other but if the other one wakes up early I do wake them up too so that they remain on the same pattern (not in the middle of the night obviously!)

I still give them milk at night before bed. Don't be too hard on yourself and choose your battles, there will come a time where you can stop the bedtime milk but it's tough with babies, and you have two of them x

[doubledup]

hello @singleandwingingit - they nap really well which I think makes the awful nights even worse lol! We are also in the weird 2 nap limbo, for instance today they woke late so it’ll be a one nap day and an early night. Just hoping they get a decent nap in or it’s tricky as they’ll want another but too close to bedtime 😵‍💫 they’re good eaters and if they have an earlier dinner we’ve been trying cereal to top them up before bed, seems to help somewhat. It’s all just very unpredictable atm but I suppose that’s babies isn’t it. I’m the same as you I will wake the better sleeper so they’re on the same schedule, this was a life saver when they were tiny. Thank you, trying not to be tooo harsh on myself but what a ride it is some days. Thank you xx

[TinyTeacher]

It's going to get better. You WILL get through this.

I've got to admit, I've never sleep trained any of mine, it just never felt like the right moment! So even if you don't train it will improve, so I'm absolutely certain you'll be able to nudge them into better habits.

Do you have other children?

[doubledup]

Thank you @TinyTeacher, the more I read on sleep training the less sure I am that it’s right for us tbh. No these are our first so it’s a crazy learning curve!

[TinyTeacher]

Twins first time round, must be VERY tough! I feel so much not relaxed this time round as I've got some perspective snoozing peacefully in the next room!

Don't worry too much about "bad" associations at that age. You can always make changes at any age! Lots I kids naturally sleep through without any k8nd of sleep training, but maybe not until they are between 2&3 years old. I assumed i would sleep train my twins as I thought I would be survive that long! 13onths was THE PIT OF DOOM though. If you can mamage to wait a bit, I suspect you'll find things easier, lots of people experience sleep regression at this age. I'd suggest gently working on the bottle association - have you heard of the Pantley pull off? It's intended mostly for breastfeeding, but people do it with bottles too. It takes takes couple of weeks (10-30 days usually) to see much improvement, but it avoids any crying.

Nap transitions are always incredibly tough! We're approaching the drop of the last nap and I'm dreading it. It doesn't last too long though and they'll settle into a new pattern soon enough that might work for a whole year!

[doubledup]

thank you both so much for replying, I got us into a routine that seems to be working much better for us, started noting down when they napped and for how long etc which helped me work out how long they actually need to be sufficiently tired for bedtime AND I’ve upped the sizes of their dinners and things are sooo much better. 13 months really is the sleep pit of doom but I can see the light! Thank you both again x

[Boymamatwinmama]

Desperate mummy in need of help please!

I have 3 boys, the eldest is 4 nearly 5 and then I have 17 month old twin boys. I am completely exhausted and at breaking point so reaching out for some help because I cannot afford a sleep consultant!

My eldest is a wonderful sleeper, settles himself and sleeps all night until 7. He even sleeps through the twins screaming at all hours of the night!

Bedtime has become a complete disaster. We are currently stuck in the following horrendous routine. The kids wake up between 6:30 and 7am, breakfast, playtime, morning milk in a sippy cup (just stopped baby bottle which they aren’t keen on) lunch, nap after lunch 1-2 (I don’t like to let them have any longer but sometimes 1 of them has an hour and a half), snack, playtime, tea time 4:30-5pm, bath time 6:30. Now this is the tricky part, my husband often works shifts so most of the bedtimes I am on my own so after bath I bring the twins downstairs to watch cebeebies bedtime tv, I sort the eldest some supper then put him a a programme on while I attempt to but the twins to bed. Unfortunately this is the time of night when the eldest likes to run around like crazy and gets everyone worked up and excited! On my own I can’t separate everyone so have to just roll with it. I then take each twin in turn to a bedroom and sit in the dark and give them a bottle of milk. They used to go to sleep in my arms and then I would put them in their cots. That stopped happening about 4/5 months ago they sit bold upright and cry until I take them back downstairs. I then try the other twin but the same thing happens. So I then have all 3 boys in the living room so resort to putting the twins in the pram and I do laps of our kitchen or garden until the fall asleep. I then leave them in the pram while I put the eldest to bed and then transfer the twins to their cots.
This worked for a while for twin 1 who would then sleep all night but twin 2 would only sleep for 2-3 hours and then wake up crying and want cuddling back to sleep. I try to put him back in his cot but as soon as I bend over to put him in he wakes up and protests so I end up giving in and he has then been sleeping in bed with me every night for weeks now.
My newest problem is that now even the pram and transfer technique has stopped working and they cry as soon as I put them in their cot so I end up downstairs with both of them, hysterical and the only thing that stops them is to put something on the tv to distract them. It is taking over 3 hours to then wait for them to be so tired that they just fall asleep on me and then I transfer them to their cots but twin 2 still wakes up to be with me a couple of hours later.
I have tried putting them in their cots away they scream the house down and wake each other up even though they are in separate rooms.
I have tried giving them the bottle to drink in their cots, they didn’t drink it and cried until I picked them up.
I have tried getting into 1 bed with both of them to feed them and cuddle at the same time but they just disturbed each other and didn’t settle.
I have tried letting them cry and going in to soothe them, as soon as I am in the room it seems to just make them worse and they scream until I pick them up.
I have tried putting them back in the same cot, again they just disturbed each other and cried until I picked them up.
They nap during the day in a pram and have never napped in their cots. I am worried that the only place they associate sleep is in the pram!
Throughout all of this my poor eldest is often left on his own to watch tv or play Lego while I struggle with the twins. My husband and I no longer share a bed because twin 2 is in with me by 11pm every night. I have no life on an evening and I am so exhausted and short tempered due to lack of sleep but I don’t know what to do to fix it.
open to any and all suggestions, sorry about the long rant!

[SiouxsieSiouxStiletto]

That sounds so difficult @Boymamatwinmama.

My DH used to work done really odd shifts so you have my sympathy.

One thing we did do was never to bring them downstairs after their bath.

As you're probably finding out, they seem to find the transition difficult if they are getting the cues that bedtime is nest but then they're back downstairs and playing with DC1.

How about bathing them all together.

Reading to them all.

Then leaving DC1 with a book whilst you give DTs their bottles?

They will probably all protest a bit but they might get used to it. Especially if you follow the same routine when DH is home.

[Donimo]

@Boymamatwinmama I have 16 month old twins and a 4 year old so a similar scenario. Our twins are not great to settle and are terrible to self sooth
But what we do is-
Our bedtime is later than yours at 7pm (if doing a bath I'll bath all 3 together about 6.30, but i dont bath every night) as if we try earier they will never settle. So all 3 children will be in pjs at 7pm. I then take the 4 year old downstairs and give her a glass of milk to watch the TV. Then in the twins bedroom I lie both girls next to each other on the floor and simultaneously give a bottle of milk together. I then lie down between them and hold their hands/cuddle till they doze off. With one of the twins we have now progressed to putting her in her cot straight after the milk and holding her hand through the cot bars.

Once both twins are asleep on the floor. I go back to the 4 year old and take her to bed and read a story etc. After 45-60 mins I'll transfer the twins off the floor into cots.

If they wake in the night I will give a dummy and play white noise really loud (blocks the crying for the other twin but also seems to settle). There are however lots of nights 1 twins comes into bed with us from about 4.30/5. This is getting fewer too.

Like the previous poster says we follow this same routine regardless of being 2 parents or 1 in the house. The only difference is the 4 year old won't be left to watch TV alone and 1 of us will sit and read with her instead. But the twins routine remains the same