Will my white children will be better off without a brown mum?

[minervasmom]

Sorry for the dramatic headline but I do feel that way today.

Both my babies DD (4) and DS (1.5) are white, my son is even blond. I'm Bengali (and brown) and their Dad's English. DD is attending a very good school and there's a mix of family backgrounds among the kids in her class.

I find I'm constantly being "blanked" or snubbed by some mums both in and out of school. I've been trying to make friends/arrange playdates/have coffee mornings - I find it has helped the kids' friendships to ripen in the past if their parents socialise too. We don't have to like each other but at least make an effort.

I'm a friendly person, pretty extrovert and normally dress fairly nicely (you'll see why I'm saying this in a mo) so I'm starting to wonder if this is a race thing? I've never faced (or maybe never noticed) overt racism before (I used to work in Publishing so perhaps ivory tower etc.) So maybe I'm misreading this? and its not racism. Maybe it's just me? Really? How come I've not faced this sort of unfriendliness before? DD went to another state school briefly and I made loads of friends (of all ethnicities) and I was pretty popular at school/uni/work.

When we've had a babysitter take the kids out and she's white, the response they get is so different. Its as if the moment I appear on the scene, and claim them as mine, it sours everything. People's expressions change, they seem to turn cold. Of course there's the proverbial "are you the childminder" sort of shit I face everyday. I just ignore that.

Soon, DCs will be old enough to notice their mum being treated differently. And how it affects their social lives. And they will hate me and perhaps even avoid having me around because of it.

What other shit am I going to have to face because of this kind of prejudice, I wonder? It's a whole, new, ugly world to me.

[Designjunkie]

I do feel for you as this has clearly upset you, but I don't think you should assume this is a race thing. If it was your children would be snubbed too. It doesn't matter if they look white, the reality is by racist standards they are not white.
You sound like a very articulate woman, you need to ensure that your children are equipped to deal with racism by been made aware of both sides of their culture. My children are older than yours but both look English white whilst I am from the Caribbean. Even though they can pass for white they refer to themselves as mixed and feel comfortable in both cultures, they can only get this from you been positive about your heritage.
I think you have to assume that these women are reserved until you have evidence to the contrary. I had opinions that some of the mums in ds class were cliquey, but completely revised that opinion by year 2. Sometimes it takes time to build these friendships. I think we often forget that we only have the children in common and in the real world probably would never be friends. Give it time. Sorry so long!

[RealityQuake]

In a society where we are systematically socialized from a young age to see White (able bodied, slim, male except for in caring or victim situations) as The Standard and the rest as Not, then, yes.

It's the same racism that means I've imported colouring books and print colouring pages from speciality website so they can have people to colour that aren't White, the same racism where I look at eyewatering prices to find dolls for my kids because I can't find these on the "normal" toy shelves, the same racism where history programmes and books constantly whitewash important groups to make them more White (even artefacts have been whitewashed with plaster to continue this image) and puts White names to important achievement (everyone knows Elvis Presley, almost nobody knows the Black artists who influenced him that started modern rock and roll). Just like everyone knows Newton and hardly anyone hears about Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin who figured out the composition of stars cause she's a woman.

Racism isn't all active feelings of hate and loathing, it's the framework of society, media, education that makes one group The Example and the rest ignored and scapegoats, lessening us all in the process. Multiple studies showing both the public and the officials think and treat Mothers of Colour as less capable and less real mothers than White Mothers - even in cities, that's the society we live in and ignoring it isn't going to make it go away anymore than ignoring sexism in the workplace makes it go away. White guys fight among themselves all the time, it doesn't mean that the racist, sexist framework that the White guys fought hard to build isn't still there are hurting the rest of us and themselves. Snobbery comes from the same framework, it's all intermixed.

[pollypandemonium]

I think it's the type of school you are in. I was in one school and found that the people I got on with were the 'outsiders' - non-white and/or non-English ones, the ones that weren't overly aspirational. We wouldn't book playdates weeks in advance, we would have impromptu 'want to come over right now' dates or 'I can't make it for pickup' playdates. I think we had a lot more fun and our children had more confidence in their own friendships.

It might be helpful to focus on a couple of parents that you do really like and get on with. Be choosy and don't bother with those that can't be inclusive.

[MTSgroupie]

Reality - Your first sentence immediately labels you as someone who goes looking for examples of racism even when it doesn't exist.

I mean, the media is full of positive images of black people. Ali, Nat King Cole, Aroetha Franklin, Louis Armstrong, Carl Lewis, Usain Bolt, Obama, James Earl Jones, Will Smith. Then there are the black music entrepreneurs/producers, Premiership players, the Olympics track team etc etc.

So it is totally untrue that we are socialised into believing that white is best. In fact the reverse seems to be true with youngsters today. To them the 'cool' people are the black singers and sportsmen/women and not the white kids working in an office.

I am not that naive that I think racism doesn't exist but, like feminism, it harms your message if everything is because of your particular 'ism'.

[duchesse]

OP, of course not! You're their Mother!!

School playgrounds are vicious places. The less assertive fall by the wayside while the cliques get to work rubbishing and savaging other people. And that's just the parents. If you want a really good laugh and some insights into the mentality of the primary school playground, read this thread. You will be aghast, but unfortunately it's pretty normal for primary school.

And find some nice friends to hang out with- there will be some, honest! They're just overshadowed by the alpha females feeling disempowered and desperate to take something out on someone.

[PsychoCynic]

OP - firstly have a hug! I'm part Malaysian and my ex-H was Irish. Our DD is light skinned with dark hair the same as mine. She's 6 now and has started asking questions about skin colour, but more in an inquisitive way, rather than a 'am I different' way.

Your children see their Mother, not a skin colour. You sound outgoing and personable, so please don't let others make you shrink away from the world. Come back at them bigger and brighter, be proud that your family are unique!!

Your not a minority! I am one of two non-white Mum's in the playground, I don't get involved in the cliques and gossip but do find a lot of people want to stop and chat or give me a cheery wave on the school runs. It does take time, but if you're feeling ostracised, it'll show in your body language and others may feel you're not approachable.

The less you care about others' opinions of your situation, the happier you will be. Good luck xx

[pollypandemonium]

MTS I find your post simplistic. Having a handful of black role models cannot possibly counterbalance the pain of seeing your mother snubbed in the playground every day because she is different. It is racism pure and simple. These women have decided she's not their type even though, on a socially demographic level she definitely IS their type.

[MTSgroupie]

Polly - going by the various MN threads, there are plenty of presumably white mothers being snubbed in the playground every day.

[MTSgroupie]

... so why elevate it to a race thing?

[Moominsarehippos]

I frequently am snubbed because I am not of the 'majority' country of origin. In the UK! And I am British. The vast majority are from another EU country (nor renouned for its friendliness) and I am the teensy minority of Brits. It wasn't like this when we started at the school. Even some of the mums have moved their kids because of there being 'too many XX kids here' (the mums being from the same country).

Not race, probably more cultural and a bit snobby ('so which major corporation does your husnabd own/run?'). Plus I work which is more than most of these idlewives do! Also, I am quite grumpy-looking and get pissed off at their rudeness (maybe blocking pavements with prams and bikes and standing gossiping en masse in the corridors is ok where they are from). They probably just think I'm a bit mad. I don't care really.

[RealityQuake]

Yay - black people can be entertainers and sports people and have their culture replicated and watered down to a cool stereotypical joke for people's amusement (See Harlem Shake, a 30 year old dance becomes cool in White culture once it's stripped of its Black origins and watered into unrecognisable joke form). That makes up for lack of representation in toy stores, children's books, most TV programmes and movies, and history and everything else a person really builds their identity on. Only 1 of your examples is not the category already built as black stereotypes and have you seen how Obama has treated?

See the Clark Doll Test, 1940s test which was redone in 2009, both showed White and Black children of primary school age are already socialised in preferring Whiteness, in thinking that White is prettier, smarter, nicer, has more friends and, just as importantly, both thinking Black as less than, the mean one, the dumb one, the one with no friends, the one they wouldn't play with. At the end of the test, they ask the kids which one looks like them and less than half Black children were willing to pick to the Black doll (and many who did do so became very upset when choosing it)

It's not about being "cool", it's about having a past, present, and future recognised as important and worthy of recognition. When we begin talking about the empires of Africa, Asia, and the Americas pre-Europe and people from those groups making real impacts in the future. Not those who are popular with a subset for stereotypes that have festered for centuries (see Minstral shows and racist science proving that Black people are physically better at the expense of emotions). Show me when your examples are treated as real people, with real feelings, and real non-stereotypical problems See an actress describe how hard it can be to get the media writers to treat Black actors as something other than a stereotype or prop for White people rather than just snapshot heroes.

And you completely missed all the other races, and seeing as the OP is Bengali and I'm Metis, a list of Black people to show how well represented we are completely misses the mark and makes my point for me (hint, we aren't interchangeable - society just treats us like we are).

I would recommend, for any interested, Uprooting Racism by Paul Kivel, he's an excellent writer on racial issues writing specifically for White and White-passing groups wanting to improve the problems.

[MTSgroupie]

at your Obama 'observation'.

Reagan was endlessly lampooned for being a B movie actor, for being old, for being stupid. Clinton was hated by many conservatives for his liberal policies and womanizing. George W Bush is regarded by both sides as being an intellectual light weight who constantly trips over his own tongue.

But from your perspective Obama was treated the way he was/is because he is black? And the reason why his white predecessors were hated was because of ????

And just in case you are so blinded by your 'ism', despite a crap economy and high levels of unemployment, the black guy still beat the white guy with the blonde wife.

[pollypandemonium]

Nevermind Obama and your reasons why black people should think themselves lucky and should have nothing to complain about. This is something that OP has picked up from the people around her. She doesn't understand why in every other walk of life she is accepted for who she is and has not come across any social hurdles.

Suddenly she walks into the school playground environment. People are excluding her and she doesn't understand why. MTS you say it's simply because she's over-reacting and extrovert and is being snubbed for that.

The reason she is being snubbed is the reason that many mothers are snubbed in the playground - because she does not conform to the aspirational norm. It's not a conflict between parents it is the ambition they have for their children. They don't want their precious darling getting too close to your precious darling because you may be some kind of bad influence. To avoid people because they are different is immoral in my book, it's rude, it's arrogant and frankly not civilised behaviour. Social exclusion is a form of self-imposed segregation.

Most people, thankfully, are supporting OP to find ways of dealing with this horrible situation.

[MUM2BLESS]

My answer is no they will not be better off without a brown mum. NO ONE CAN TAKE YOUR PLACE. NO ONE WILL LOVE THEM LIKE YOU WILL ! You are mum and thats all that matters. Do not let other people stop you from being mum.

As your children get older they will notice your feelings. Grow them up to feel proud of both racial backgrounds. They need to be taught to be proud of who they are.

Its a shame that people are so narrow minded in society. All the best. I send you a BIG HUG.

I am a black childminder. Over the years I have childminded kids from different racial backgrounds. I use to get stares from people of all races when I had the white children with me. I CANNOT imagine how you are feeling with this being done to you as MUM to the children.

Keep your head up high and know that the children are YOURS.

[MTSgroupie]

There has been endless threads about school gate politics but as soon as the mom that is being blanked is non-white its - what a bunch of racists.

And by the way, I never said that the OP was being ignored because she was extroverted. I have no idea why she is being ignored. I'm not a school gate smoozer. I drop off and I go so I've no insight into group dynamics at the school gate.

[MUM2BLESS]

I met a white lady who had black kids. I thought she was perhaps their nanny During our conversation I realised that they had been adopted. She said that the kids were hers.

I know your situation is different, but the fact is the lady said they were HERS.

You sound like a lovely mum, do not let other people stop you from enjoying the experience of being mum. Enjoy every stage with YOUR children.

[MUM2BLESS]

spottyparrot what you say is interesting

I think there are a small number of racist people around but it would not account for constant blanking/snubbing.

It is possible that its not a racist reaction. As I work from home I have been able to do the school run. I know that certain parents can be cliquey. It can be daunting for new parents do the school run.

[Moominsarehippos]

DH has never every ever assumed 'racism' over any snub, oversight or rudeness. My sisters friend assumes that most things are racism.

Keep your hear up, OP. This really sounds like the usual school gate crap. Some. It's just revert to 'gang' mentality and I will never understand cliques. You will meet a few mums over time that you will click with.

[pollypandemonium]

You will find friends the moment you stop fighting for the attention of those that want to exclude you, and focus on those that really want to talk to you.

By the end of my primary school Mum days I found a great group of friends, we all felt a bit left out at first but came together and actually had a lot in common in term of attitude. We had some of the best late night vodka sessions and extended drunken picnics, were able to enjoy the summer fair without feeling we had to take a week off to get it all ready. We bought ready made cakes for the cake stall and praised each others common sense and went on big, disorganised camping sessions and day trips. But at first I felt left out because I am 'different' and it was hard and I sympathise.

[giveitago]

Minverva - of course they won't.

I'm a middle aged person and my mum is asian. Honest to goodness I dont understand 'multiculturalism' these days. We were a multicultural country once.

Of COURSE I love and need my lovely mummy even though she's now in her mid 70's and her health failing. Just as I still my lovely daddy who's in his mid 70;s and his health failing.

I promise you - kids have no bloody idea of their parents' background. They have parents and they are dependent on them. That's the way it is. I'm married to man from yet another background and ds is so uninteresting in his backgrounds other than he sees that we all look so very different from each other in terms of skin colour.

I'd say what's going on in your school playgrouond is the quite common crap that many mums experience in the school playground.

IIf anything my mum was so horribly popular back then becacuse she looked different to the other mums way back in the mid 70's.

Completely hear what motherinferior is saying. Same position - we've met on this before, no?

[giveitago]

Minerva - I'd also say my dm never thought of me of being 'white' anymore than my df (who is spitting image of the thin white duke david bowie) thinks his daughter looks middle eastern. They, to this day, think of me as their child. A person who has x character, x talents, x faults etc.

I also don't think dm's or df's skin colour or ethnicity. I'm not proud or love them because they give me their varying ethnic and religious roots, but rather because they are my parents who did their best for me inspite of their human failings.

Don't think of your kids as a skin colour because they don't have your colouring. Genetics are more than skin colouring. They need and want their mum.

School playground is another place entirely. A bonkers place for many.

[BernadetteRostenkowskiWolowitz]

as u r in london i find it hard to believe that it is racism. i only get on with ( in a genuinely relaxed way) aboutt en per cent of 'moms'

[BernadetteRostenkowskiWolowitz]

i agree polly. there are a set who will always blank me cos im broke and single! but as it turns out i want witty kindd friends who are quirky and not desperate to conform to a stepford wife thang

[pumpkinsweetie]

Your kids love you regardless of colour/race/shape/size.

This is common playground crap, and it's very probable it bares no meaning to your colour.
I'm white, and i have experienced the same hostile behaviour at my children's school-it's very clickey, people are in groups and I'm just one of many that cant seem to enter that iyswim.
I don't think it's for any particular reason other than, they pick and choose willy nilly who they want as part of that.

You sound lovely op, don't let this bother you.
The school run only makes up a small part of the day.

[Moominsarehippos]

The more you worry about it, the worse it becomes. I went through a period just after ds started school - my mum died suddenly, dh was made redundant, crippling depression, etc etc etc it was bloody awful. I gave up bothering trying to be friendly and just closed myself off - I'm shy to start with.

One sunny day it just seemed to lift - I had eventually got a new job that I really liked (after working in a shit hole and being made redundant), ds was doing really well in school, dh was less stressed... I was crossing the road feeling quite happy and one of the alpha moms was crossing the other way. I shot a smile and she hesitated and smiled back. Ok so we aren't bosom buddies, but I get a civil 'hi' and a snmile. I may not be 'her kind of people' but I don't want to be.

As long as people aren't horrible, and ds has some playdates with sime nice kids, I fee like I'm winning.