The penny has dropped

[rockingbird]

Interesting conversation today with my ExH.. one of our DC has basically made it clear he has no interest in seeing dad. I've been encouraging they go to dads eow as agreed but this has been reluctantly done of recent and DC has come home early on two occasions. ExH said on the phone today I've lost him haven't I - yeah you have you d*ck. (obviously I didn't say that). It's his weekend this weekend one is off camping so not staying at dads, I know the other (reluctant DC) won't want to go alone. Almost 13 so old enough to make their pie mind up.. is it time for me to say something? It's all his own doing, completely blew our family apart thinking with his dock and not his brain.. I'm just at the point where I feel like I should be blunt and say it like it is. The less I see of this man the better, sadly my other DC thinks the sun shine out his ar$e annoying 🥴

I'm not sure what you are asking ? Say something to who ?

I have a different situation than you - the father is not involved at all now in any capacity. However, the route I try to take is to say as little as possible to the kids and if they bring it up, try to answer questions in an age appropriate, truthful way without bad mouthing him (which trust me is hard). They'll figure things out when they are old enough and know who was there for them and (sadly) who wasn't.

If you mean say something to him - that depends. Why - what do you want to achieve ? If it is to be helpful and try to ensure that there is a father son relationship, then maybe if you could do so (but only you know how that would go down with him). If it is to gloat, then I wouldn't bother. He'll either come to the realisation on his own (which it sounds like is happening) and suffer the consequences of his choices, or he won't care. Either way, you saying something will not help the situation. And I doubt you'd feel better.

Good luck.

I think the issue really lays with ex. He's insistent the children stay eow but my eldest is very reluctant and I feel like I can't force him. I'm going to have a chat with him today, make it clear that the kids are growing up and not wanting to spend as much time with him. We've very much settled into our new home life, tick along nicely and he's just not part of that. I've been very supportive of his contact, had him over for family dinners and board game etc.. entertained two Christmas' and held my tongue 😬 as you say not an easy task!! I think the penny has dropped, we've moved on, his constant calls (mostly nonsense) the popping round and trying to co-parent in a friendly manner just makes it all quite awkward. At one point a while back I thought we might be able to save our marriage but I know now that's just not going to happen.. When I think about the damage he's caused I give my head a wobble. It's like he can't accept his wrongdoings are the reason we are no longer a family - almost like it didn't happen. Hope that makes more sense.

What about suggesting he has them on a weeknight and one night at the weekend instead? So it isnt so much time out of their free time?

I think you still need to be careful in what you say. Don’t give him grounds for alleging parental alienation. At the same time you can rightly point out that as the children get older they will want to make their own decisions as to where they spend their time. I don’t think that at 12 you can simply step back and wash your hands of things.

It sounds as though you need some distance. You can't parent for him, and it sounds like you've been trying to. Practice emotional detachment. Assuming he's not actually bad for the kids, present visiting as a fait accomplis but practice not caring very much whether the kids actually go. You: "Don't forget you're staying with your dad on Saturday." DC: "I don't want to." You: "Well, you'd better call him and tell him - it's in the calendar already." ExH: "DC is saying he won't come." You: "Oh. Well, I told him it was the calendar. Got to go - someone's at the door."

If he is bad for the kids, that's another story. But from what you've said you sound caught up in his sadness about losing his family. Not your circus; not your monkeys. Your family is totally fine TVM.

Agree with @leafinthewind , support but don't force the visits.
If exh express sadness the kids are less interested, you can agree the relationship is affected by the marriage split, add that you wish your children had been able to grow up with a close relationship with their dad (let's not forget it is they that have lost the better relationship as much as him!) and leave it at that. It says it all.

Maybe he could be taking them to an activity once per week or even doing an activity with them?

I don't think you need to say anything or have a deep char. Just let the kids vote with their feet

Maybe he needs to do different things with them rather than they just go round every other weekend.
Even when parents are still together the relationships change as children get older. Less about supervision and care tasks and more about doing things together. It was in my early teens I started going to concerts with my dad. If ds is into camping dad can take him camping or looking at romans ruins or whatever they fancy. I learn a lot of diy skills from my dad in my teens

Tbh I'd say that's down to him to come up with and put in place (if the dc want)

As soon as DD reached 12 I let her arrange her own contact with Dad she just had to put it in our shared calendar. I'll prompt her to let him know if she's not going and that's as much input as I have.

If it was me I'd be making it enticing for her to go so that she wanted to see me and spend time with me (just like you have to when teens live with you) but he doesn't they just sit at his and she plays with her toddler half-sister which is the only thing keeping her going. He has never booked a cinema, bowling, arcade, or any other sort of trip in 15 years unless his family are visiting.

For your Ex as you seem to be on speaking terms and presumably he isn't actually bad for the children to see I would advise him to make his visits more suited to the child who doesn't want to go, book activity he enjoys. Find out why he doesn't want to go he may just be over living out of a suitcase as it were and not watching to sleep over night but to have a home base whereas would be happy to go out for the day.

The trouble with bad mouthing and rejecting a child's father is that they will realise at some stage that they have inherited their father's genes. When a separated parent criticises the other parent, it can sound like a criticism of the child too.
I had a friend who made it clear that her separated child's father was to be blamed for the family split. Out of loyalty to their mother they refused to see their father. They were teenagers when it happened. Eventually, when both the grown up boys married, their partners encouraged them to have a relationship with their father. My friend was ultimately cast as the baddy and the adult men have little contact with their mother and have a friendly bond with their father.

I would I stop the him dropping in and shared Christmas etc. Encourage them to keep in contact and go for dinner, part of the weekend if they are reluctant to do the whole EoW thing. Help it become more fluid.

It might work well then reluctant DC going without his brother as they could connect a bit better. That is as long as exh treats him ok

Thank you, all good points. I'm trying to keep my distance to be honest. He was and still is a very controlling person and I believe the dropping round is more to keep an eye on what I'm up to - truth be known.. nothing! Building a new home from scratch has kept me financially tied and fairly busy. We left the family home, begrudgingly but it was the only answer. The family home has turned into a very unkept space 😬 cleaning isn't on his priority list. In fact working is all he really cares about and if he's not on the phone he's on his laptop and the kids are left to their own devices. He's also very good and cooking and drinking wine then passing out! The kids have noticed this more and more and it's becoming increasingly worse. Never did anything with them when he was around and unless I organise it they'd go nowhere. Probably the main factor the eldest is just bored and wants to come home. I refuse to sugar coat this sh*t show, his second marriage down the toilet pan and his previous children (now adults) have nothing to do with him unless they want money. I actually feel sorry for him but it's certainly his own doing, as you can see I'm fed up and wish he'd f'off back overseas but he's past it and if I'm not careful I'll end up wiping his arse for years to come (over 55 and poor health)..

OMG no more of him in your home EVER.

He is still controlling you and you are still letting him.

There is not need for phone calls etc.

He shows no interest in the DC or basic parenting let them drift away.

He can take it back to court, they will laugh at him at their ages.

I think you need to step back and stop thinking you have any role to play in the relationship between him and your dcs.

Just now, he is trying to rope you in to try and sort it (hence he is playing the victim talking to you). You have been ‘sugar coating’ what’s going on and you want to stop that (and I assume tell your dcs straight). It’s coming close to wanting some revenge iyswim.

In reality, your ex is doing it all by himself. There is nothing you can do about it but to support your dcs.
As the oldest is now 13yo, I’d want to slowly back off organising the weekends and tell them both they need to sort it out between each other.
I wouldn’t say anything unless they ask specific questions. And if they come back annoyed/bored/frustrated, I’d deal with it like if it was anyone. Acknowledge their feeling, acknowledge they feel hurt. Ask them what they think they can do.

Fwiw I’d keep in mind that it must be a very hard place to be in for your dc. He is acknowledging that he doesn’t really matter in his dad’s life. That will b very hard to swallow. Your youngest has the same issue but is basically bricking it and is hanging into the ‘my dad is amazing’ story. It’s a protection mechanism and can’t be that easy either.

@VillageOnSmile thanks, good advice. I'd admit to wanting some sort of revenge to a certain extent. Show me a wife cheated on and manipulated to that level who wouldn't. He's naturally turned it around and he's now the victim - very cleaver man indeed. I think your advice is spot on, I'll acknowledge their feelings and keep shut about my own, help them navigate visits and stop the friendly chats and popping round for a cuppa. I'm really at the point of cracking, I've been far too nice to this man for the sake of the children but have inadvertently made him far too comfortable in our new home.