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fed up with bad publicity single parents get-i do better job than most 2 parent families!

54 replies

AMAZINWOMAN · 14/07/2007 11:19

David Cameron and the Conservatives are once again encouraging marriage by giving married people better tax breaks.

I'm fed up with all the bad pubilicty that single parents get. I am bringing my kids up much better than people in 2 parent families. Both of my kids are bright, the best behaved in class, got lovely friends and are both happy and confident. Especially my youngest-this school report said he always does his best, asset to school, delight to teach etc etc

why cant the conservaties just encourage tax breaks FOR ALL families instead of singling out families-why do my kids have to see this on the news and be made to feel differnt? rant over!

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ladylush · 16/07/2007 00:04

It also suits the government that the media scapegoats single parents as it detracts attention away from the real tax robbers.

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Nightynight · 15/07/2007 23:31

hmm, I saw this news item and just thought, uh oh, he is pandering to the blue rinse brigade.
I live in a strongly religious area (the Pope is from round here), and I hate the prejudice that exists round here.

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ladylush · 15/07/2007 23:25

Thanks Lisa - I'll gladly take your money (I'm a nurse). We pay £550 a month for 3 days nursery a week.

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rantinghousewife · 15/07/2007 19:39

As someone who (at one time) was a single parent and is now one of 2, I'd just like to say that I do think that single parents get a bad rap. It is much, much harder as a single parent, as someone else mentioned if you're working, if your child(ren) is/are ill, you can't share the burden. I once used my entire yearly leave because ds caught 2 nasty ear infections and the chicken pox in one year. And I couldn't go swanning off for a nice day of shopping and leave the dc's with dh, like I can now.
I think the problem is that the media (and for media, read Daily Mail) portray all single mothers as chain smoking, Vicky pollards who sit on their arses all day and sponge off the saintly tax payer.

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cba · 15/07/2007 19:17

amazinwoman, i agree people should give lone parents a break. My mum brought me up on her own and did an amazing job. Not so long ago I was amazed when I went to a school coffee morning and one of the mums said "yes, i have chose this school for x because there are no single parents kids here". I then went onto tell her that I came from a single parent family and was very proud of my mum. Shut her up!

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lisad123 · 15/07/2007 19:05

Me and dh are married and who ever wrote about both parents needing to earn a low wage to get any childcare costs covered, is correct. We earn too much according to goverment to get working families, or childcare help, so have to pay £300 out of my wages straight off
I dont think there is anyway to please everyone, but would happily give my £20 tax break to someone else, maybe the nurses that truely deserve it, or back inot education.

Lisa

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skyatnight · 15/07/2007 17:26

Amazinwoman - you seem to have the right name! I think most people did understand your OP. Please excuse me if I sound a bit patronising, I don't mean it that way, but, if your children are happy and doing well at school, even with the dificult circumstances you described, then you are obviously doing a good job and have every right to be proud. You probably are doing a better job than some 2-parent families.

This thread has gone full circle and the consensus seems to be that DC has lost the plot.

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nappyaddict · 15/07/2007 17:20

exactly. for married couples some cannot afford to go back to work cos their wages would not even be enough to cover childcare costs.

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AMAZINWOMAN · 15/07/2007 16:52

My title doesnt say i do better job than all parents! sorry to cause offence

but my situation is like sky at night said-
widowed, in damp property, and washing machine doesnt always work.
i have absolutely nothing materially and support wise-but all i have is time and love for my kids. And I make sure that every day my kids get my love and atention.


this is what makes my kids so secure and self confident. teachers at their schools were so surprised that i was raising them alone-they have obvously been influened by media

and yes-my post was rushed-im not very good at doing two things at once-running a bath, making tea-my son is in bathroom so am rushing

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skyatnight · 15/07/2007 16:50

That hadn't occurred to me. Interesting point, LBLB, and well put. Maybe the DC policy is not about children then (although the way it has been portrayed in the press it is). Maybe, as single parents, we need not be offended about any implied slur on our parenting abilities? But perhaps we should be offended instead as singletons who don't qualify for the £20?

Maybe it is just about encouraging people to marry and stay married for the sake of stability, regardless of whether you have children or not, because stability of the population and more people in fewer houses is cheaper for the government? (?) Did the old married tax allowance take into account whether people had children?

Other countries, e.g. France and Spain, are incentivising couples (I think regardless of whether they are married or not) to have more children, by providing one-off grants for each child (I think). We are an over-populated country with lots of immigrants so maybe the government doesn't want to encourage an increase in the birth rate here?

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LittleBellatrixLeBoot · 15/07/2007 16:13

I presume the OP meant she's doing a better job than some two parent families, not all. I'd assume that tbh rather than take offence at something that's obviously a typo or badly phrased.

I think the main absurdity of this proposal is that if it were introduced in reality, it would mean that very hard-working lone and married parents, would be paying taxes so that childless, comfortable married DINKYs could have 4 holidays a year and get rewarded by the tax system just for being married. While parents who had lived together for twenty years in a stable family, and LP's, got nothing.

How that's not bollocks, is beyond me. I hate to agree with the Labour Party, but the simple rejoinder that the tax system should first and foremost recognise the extra expense and contribution to society that producing children represents, is so obvious that it is quite incredible that DC has made such a massive error of judgement in even considering privileging childess marriage over the needs of children. He's just blown all the positive PR he's built up over the last couple of years. The Tories are so lost.

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skyatnight · 15/07/2007 15:40

Chikenmother. It's good that you have the skills and qualifications to have a good job and some flexibility in your working hours. But with three children and no help from their father, it must still be hard and there must be other single parents in Portugal who don't have decent jobs and are really struggling? I suppose we should count our blessings in the UK.

Got to go now. I'm neglecting my child what with typing up my long rants!

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skyatnight · 15/07/2007 15:31

Nappyaddict, if you are a single parent and work at least 16 hours a week, I think working tax credits pay, is it (?), 70% of your childcare costs. So there is help, the government incentivises you to work. It's harder for married women who want to work part time, in that respect, as they will only qualify for wtc to pay childcare costs if they work full-time AND if their husband does not earn much. I think? (Have I got this right?)

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chikenmother · 15/07/2007 15:26

I am Portuguese, live in Lisbon. Not to work is not an option, but I wouln´t like staying at home all the time with the children and have profissional skills that allow me to do what I like, keeping a full time job and some flexibilty in hours of work. But it is NOT easy...

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nappyaddict · 15/07/2007 15:24

im ranting about the fact that people want to go back to work but cos childcare costs are so expensive they can't.

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skyatnight · 15/07/2007 15:19

Where do you live, Chikenmother? The OP was about the bad publicity single parents get but we have moved more onto the subject of finances. I think you are right though that the UK system is not bad in terms of the financial support available to low-income households (including single parent ones)and we do have some choice about whether we work or not. I'm sorry if it is a lot harder for you.

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chikenmother · 15/07/2007 15:16

That´s why i think lone mothers are truly strong and that it´s harder to raise kids beeing a single mom than a 2 parent family. And that some fathers should be arrested for neglecting their children...

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chikenmother · 15/07/2007 15:11

Well, in my country there is no significant supports for lone parents. A divorced woman with children must take care of them and work full time (sometimes even with double job) to support them. If the father does not pay for maintenance as the law says, and if he hides hos earnings from the social security, no useful work will achieve him to pay what he should. I have 3 children and a very complicated divorce. I care about them alone, no payment at all from their father (my ex-husband) since divorce and no legal work possible beeing done from the Justice.

I am a good job and we have been managing with all our essencial needs provided. My kids are learning that his father is NOT an example to follow and that, in extreme, the only suitable law is the one of our conscience. Staying home lone mother with 3 kids is simply not possible here. You have a better sistem than ours!! Feel happy about it.

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Tinkerbel5 · 15/07/2007 15:06

nappyaddict who are you ranting about?

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nappyaddict · 15/07/2007 15:01

problem is to get people back to work they need after school and breakfast clubs in every school and help with nursery or child minder costs.

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skyatnight · 15/07/2007 14:57

I do believe, expect in special circumstances of abuse, that both parents should be fully involved in the upbringing of their children, whether married or not. If marriage helps parents to remain committed to their children, then it should be encouraged and promoted as the ideal. But I suppose marriage isn't really the issue, it's just that people shouldn't have children if they are going to abandon or neglect them or use them as weapons to hurt an ex-partner. It just seems common sense that it is better for a child and for its parents if there are two of them to do the work and provide the care. But it is a generalisation and, when all is said and done, I don't think it's possible to argue convincingly that single parents are better than 2-parent families or vice versa. As Nutcracker said, it depends on the individuals doing the parenting. It's not the point and it doesn't help anyone.

But I do totally share the OP's frustration at the way the media reports the subject of single parent families - as if we are the dregs and the rot of society - as if we cannot possibly do as good a job as a 2-parent family. Is it any wonder that we feel defensive about it? The way the issues are presented in the media isn't helpful, it's just divisive and it warps the public's perception of single parents which could in turn affect children in single-parent families, cause bullying perhaps.

The current tax credit system does seem to benefit single parent households and being able to have working tax credit for working only 16 hours is direct discrimination in favour of single parents. I can understand why some 2-parent families where both parents are working full-time, but who still have low income, might feel that it is unfair - might think that single parents get to work part-time and see more of their kids, whereas they have to slog away at full time jobs and only see their kids at weekends. I understand they might have this perception - BUT - I still think it is probably, on average, incorrect. BECAUSE, the practical, emotional and financial disadvantages and difficulties of being in a single parent family probably still outweigh any small advantage that the tax credit system gives them. And the fact that single parent families tend to be amongst those receiving tax credits speaks for itself, they are the families with low income and the system is designed to help them because they have low income, not because they are single parents. The little extra money still does not make up for the fact that it is bloody hard being a single parent and the additional practical difficulties that it involves but it might help with contingencies such as paying for a child-minder when a child is sick and the mother has to work, when the second parent, the father, just isn't there and can't fill in.

Or don't we want a welfare state any more? Don't we care about all children, not just our own? I'm all right Jack, sod you? It's your fault that your relationship with the father failed. It would never happen to me....until it does, because it can happen to anyone.

In an ideal world, any government policy or system should treat everyone equally, regardless of who they are and what their status is but this is never possible as everyone's circumstances are different and it is never the case that one size fits all. Think of all those billionaires who never pay any tax at all because they have clever accountants.

You could have a single mother who got to keep the 4 bedroom house, who recieves £600 per month maintenance, who works 16 hours and receives child and working tax credit - who works part-time and is also pretty well-off financially in her own right. She might also have a good relationship with her generous and kind xh (they just 'grew apart')and extended family, all willing to help out if she fancies going off on a spa weekend with her best mate. Does she really need or deserve the tax credits?

Or you could have a single mother whose xh is a complete violent bastard who terrorises her and their children. He doesn't give her any maintenance. Or maybe he died and she's a widow. She has no family to help her and never gets any time to herself. She has no qualifications to get a decent job. She has no car and so is restricted with regard to the jobs she could take. Her children are traumatised and one has special needs so needs extra care. She is suffering from exhaustion and is depressed. They are living in a damp flat and can't afford to replace the broken washing machine so she has to trog to the launderette with the kids in tow. Ok, I'm getting carried away with my imagination here - a bit ridiculous - but there are people living with these circumstances and don't they deserve the little extra help that tax credits give them?

The government doesn't have the resources to assess everyone individually to see if their particular circumstances merit additional financial support. The government has to come up with a general policy in the hope that those who really need the extra help will get it. If there are some 2-parent families who are also struggling unfairly, the government should try to tweak the system to correct this. Maybe the DC policy would do that but I don't know.

In the end, the system can never be completely fair, for the reasons stated above, but, in this day and age, with so many single parent families, the politicians and media should handle the issue more responsibly such that it is not touted as a policy for married parents or a policy for single parents which can only have the effect of causing, possibly or probably false, divisions and prejudice between different types of families.

I think there should be some kind of carer's wage for mothers (single or married) who want to stay at home to look after their children. It shouldn't be a lot (so that it is not an incentive to stay at home) and it should only be available for mothers of children below school age. Or there should be a reduced amount for mothers who are still not working when their children are at school but who have special circumstances, e.g. lots of children or children with special needs which make it more difficult for them to work and still be there for their family needs. But I suppose the tax credit system already caters for these circumstances. Is anything further needed?

As someone else has said, I think saying that all mothers of children aged 11 and above should work full-time could have the effect of creating latch-key kids because not everyone can or is going to pay for after-school club or a child-minder. And there is the other issue that, as a generalisation, parents who live together can take it in turns to take time off work for sports days, children's illnesses, emergencies whereas single parents might have noone to share these responsibilities with. This perception may not be entirely accurate (e.g. a single parent may have family who will help) but nonetheless single parents tend to be seen as a bit of a liability by employers which makes it harder for single parents to gain employment even if they want to work. This is probably why, in their wisdom, the government saw fit to allow the dispensation to single parents of qualifying for working tax credit while only working 16 hours instead of 30.

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nappyaddict · 15/07/2007 13:45

even married mothers. but generally married mothers who stay at home don't qualify for much help do they? i just think it's a bit cheeky to ask for help when technically you don't need it cos you could be working. i can understand wanting to be with them before they are at school but once they are in school you can't really use the excuse but i want to be with my children.

if you don't want to work fine, but then only do it if you can afford to do it, don't expect other people to fund your choice to not work.

i think i am rambling so i will finish my post now.

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Tinkerbel5 · 15/07/2007 13:13

I dont think DC is serious at all, where would the extra money come from for a start has he mentioned that, he would obviously be robbing peter to pay paul so he will probably put tax up to cover this.

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zookeeper · 15/07/2007 13:10

Haven't read all the post but if Cameron was serious about this he would make marriage more difficult

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Tinkerbel5 · 15/07/2007 13:09

married mothers aswell ?

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