Making a change for a better life (with kids) - what, where, how?

[bourbonmadness]

DH especially and I somewhat have always talked about having a change in lifestyle and not living in the Truman show for ever more. We have 2 small children (5, 4) and we are comfortable financially. My husband is well paid and I work part time, more for sanity than for the money (I have a profession). We live significantly below our means. We we want to move for better secondary schools in the next few years and could afford to add £200K+ cash to a property without having a mortgage (lucky I know) and look at regional 'better areas' and ponder. However, we are both like 'is this what we really want?' As my husband said he doesn't know whether he wants to buy into the 'middle class bullshit' iykwim.
My husband has intermitent ideas which range from the Ben Fogle series type - lets give up everything and live in rural France and spend some money we have not working and sustaining to applying for similar jobs as we do now in Aus. We contiplated similar before DC's but various options ended up falling through and it never came off.
I'm up for something and don't aspire to have a perfect identi-kit house full of feature walls, 'our family' type signs and kids kitted out in Joules , but ultimately I am a realist and want the childrens needs to be met in terms of education etc and I'm aware the grass isn't always greener. Has anyone else has similar feelings, experiences that they could share? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

[SpoiltMardyCow]

Babooshka, that is a great post! You should send a longer version to the Telegraph Expat overseas commentary section for publication.

You have put into words my experience of expats (Oh, wouldn't have this in Skegness, would we Trace!) into a beautifully expressed nugget of brilliance.

Bravo!

[bourbonmadness]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Food for thought.
It isn't my intention to offend anyone - these are my opinions on what I want for my family and me - different strokes for different folks and whatever floats your boat!.
It is, however, a fact that there can be definate competitive streak in middle class encalves around where you're at in society/what you own / how you dress/what you do etc which we are a bit allergic to! E.g., I can remember going to a baby group with my friend in a nearby area and the first question everyone asked each other on my several visits was 'what do you do' nothing about the child etc, where as where we are people would ask ' how old if he/she etc'. That is probably part of the reason why we are currently where we are. A down to earth area where everyone is friendly. It isn't that we think people surrounding us are boring / humdrum etc - of course not. We're just bored with the same place and lack of access to certain things to do in our free time (neither rural idyll or cultural laden city)! We've been here a long time and are looking for a fresh challenge. Is that so bad? TBH it must be nice whatever you're into to just be happy with your lot and I admire people who can be like that.
We both make massive efforts and have friends where we are which would part of the strain of moving away. Yes we have filtered in long holidays, day trips, weekends away. But you've not always got lots of hours on your hands to make where you are feel Ok if deep down you want a change.
Maybe as people have hinted at we're seeing do nothing versus massive vhange forever and maybe there is a middle ground.

[PinkBallerina]

It sounds like you want it so be brave and make the jump. I will say one thing, not everybody who lives abroad is fun, free spirited, on trend etc as you might think. I love my life here but the individuality of being a foreigner wears off pretty fast. My good expat friend in the next village has lived all over the world and speaks several languages fluently, but she is as British middle class as they come, she does feature walls, Joules clothing, competitive schooling etc. That shit crosses borders too. Why not just move to a inner city hipster area in UK?

[PinkBallerina]

If you don't like being asked what do you do then DON'T move abroad. Because all you will be asked on meeting new people is "what does your husband do? Who does he work for?" as that usually defines why someone is living abroad

[bourbonmadness]

Ok, so I know people are people everywhere and perhaps I've put too much emphasis across here on the middle class thing (or whatever it means). I guess we just want a change and I wouldn't hold it against anyone (as I hope they wouldn't me) for their preferences. It's just what your priorities are I guess. But sometimes I feel suffocated by that aspect, like that's what you should aspire to when there's a big wide world to explore (and maybe get sick of, regret exploring etc)

[Kitchencrayon]

Also agree with Babooshka.

If material things really aren't important to you, then don't define yourself or others by theirs. Just because their houses/cars are all the same doesn't mean they all are.

Perhaps part of the problem is that you don't feel connected to where you live. Offering your services locally as a volunteer can help this. I say this as someone who has lived in a number of different countries, not to be patronising.

Remember too health care if you're abroad. As much as the NHS is criticised, no other systems are perfect either and depending on where you are, health insurance is a serious issue if you are looking for at least the same standard of care.

[mrsnec]

I agree about the class thing and the way it's being described.

There are people like that here and the idyllic places I've lived in the UK. Dorset, Surrey villages for example, they weren't for me either.

We think you'd get the rural idyll but in a different way in the south west so see ourselves there if we ever return to the UK.

I agree about health care. It's excellent here but disjointed. My fil has no insurance and isn't a pensioner and hasn't been paying social security here and a simple op just cost him 20k.

To summarise you will regret it if you don't but destination needs careful consideration. Try and convince yourself that your perfect place doesn't exist and have very low expectations and don't expect to be welcomed anywhere with open arms.

[annandale]

It is unpleasant feeling unconnected to the place you live. I lived in a nice place a few years ago (hmm, just realised I left there 13 years ago) and just disliked it. I didn't feel in tune with anyone there in values, opinions, socialising, anything. After two years I was just about starting to make a couple of friends.

I can't describe how different it is where I am now - I feel in tune with the whole area and made friends almost immediately. I am viscerally connected to this place now. For me, moving within the UK was what made the difference. So if you're not in the right place, I do think you are right to look to make a change. Whether this needs to be a new country is not definite.

[Unhappyexpat]

You get middle class bullshit everywhere...and be honest, fretting about good schools and green leafy suburbs isn't a terrible thing.

I've lived in several cities across the uk and a few different countries and what Annandale says is right: sometimes you viscerally love a place and sometimes you hate it. I loved Edinburgh, for example, and am not terribly keen on where I live now (Sweden.)

Don't underestimate the difficulty of moving and living abroad. It is exhausting operating in a different language. I often struggle and just go blank, which is awful. The kids will need to pick up the language and their schooling will be disrupted. There's a deep sense of disconnect sometimes, and there are times you just hate the alien ness of it all. Little things can drive me crazy here, like the other day I held a door for someone on crutches. I got dark looks in return. Apparently it's not done to do this as it insults people and if they want help they'll ask (^@+-ing place I am never going to understand the rules here!!)

It can be a good opportunity but go into it with open eyes. Unless you're very wealthy, you're going to have the same day to day issues you have in the uk : work, etc.

[frenchfancy]

We're just bored with the same place and lack of access to certain things to do in our free time
I'm struggling to reconcile this with the idea of living in rural France. There is no access to do things in your free time. It is called rural for a reason. As for humdrum and parochial don't even go there. Most of my neighbours see going to the nearest city as a major adventure. Some have never left the department in their lives despite living only half an hour from the border.

[annandale]

I'd agree with Frenchfancy, sounds more like you need to move to the centre of a city. Having grown up in the country myself, I moved to a city as soon as I had an income of my own and my city postcode will be prised from my cold, dead hands.

[Gfplux]

Are you of the same mind and are both brave enough for a move. I ask as too often one partner is happy and the other not after the move overseas.
Saying all of that and agreeing that moving is hard.
Have a look at Luxembourg.
Half the population are foreigners
Great infrastructure
Largish City but also rural
Lots of Culture including English/American films
Good Educations system
Wonderful health system
Etc, etc.
Colder than the UK in winter and warmer in the summer.

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

Why would anyone in their right mind move from sydney to the grand duchy of luxemburg in the context of the OP????

Babooshka nailed it.
Read or revisit the revolutionary road?

[Gfplux]

Sorry laptop, I don't understand. What did I do wrong.

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

Sorry did not mean to offend Gfplux!
From what i know of Luxemburg, it is usually a temporary posting....not a live happily ever after kind of place?
The kids would probably go to an international school and work would probably be in a very expat centered environment too. Thought that was what the OP was trying to flee?

The comment about the revolutionary road is for the OP of course because it sounds like that kind of mid life crisis.

[Monty27]

Do it OP. I wish I had.

[mrsnec]

I think education is a big consideration which we didn't really think about because we didn't have children when we moved abroad. They're still a way off school age.

There are British schools here but the children are all ex pats and mostly transient so as soon as the children are settled all their friends are moving on.

Village schools are obviously full of local children and taught in local language but that also means they're held back here to catch up and likewise if you return to the UK. And they end up with qualifications only recognised here.

So the point is, international schools are more often than not the best option in my opinion. Here there are local children at the international schools too because their parents think it gives them better opportunities.

[Mag314]

I know exactly what the OP's DH means. I found my location in a leafy suburb of London quite stifling. And I was white, I was polite, I recycled, I read the Guardian, I had the correct opinions, I spoke well, mostly, I tried to remember never to say mantelpiece, I was slim and dressed appropriately. But sometimes I felt like screaming ''you motherfuckers you're all pretending".

I couldn't have afforded a parking space or a kennel in the part of London where I used to live. So I decided to prioritise a roof over my head, and then attempt to sort out the rest later. (Job, social life) There is life outside of central London. My 80s terraced house would probably appall my former London self. But I've no mortgage. That does give a better quality of life in that a major major worry is totally alleviated.

A good friend of mine whose parents lived in Richmond, so she's used to people being tasteful, bla blah blah, she has ended up in the south of spain. She bought a house recently in the middle of a charming small town (inland, south of spain) and it was only 40k. She and her DC speak spanish now, but she never spoke it at school!

[TannhauserGate]

Take a sabbatical. Just try six months elsewhere, anywhere really. It will tell you all you need to know- about yourself, your real inner desires, your DH, your children's resilience. Decide after that.
You'll either love it or hate it.
But you'll know. You'll also have a much better ideas about what things are non-negotiable in any place you move to.

[Mag314]

Wow unhappyexpat that is quite a sad image, holding a door open for somebody on crutches and they give you a dark look!? Are there many other rules like that!?

[bourbonmadness]

Thanks everyone. Valid points indeed. A change is needed but the destination is unclear. I get that totally. Re rural versus city, at least they are both one or the other with their own merits. Middle ground small town can not have either of the positives of city or rural iykwim.
Does anyone have any experience of home schooling? I'm wondering whether 6-12 months travelling (maybe camper van for some stability of environment for DC's?), home schooling the children (2 under 6) may either get it out our systems so to speak or give us more clarity on what we want where. Also, we would have quality time together. I'm just not clear if would be a selfish adult thing to do, or at this age (where the children still don't really have close friendships and like playing with their mummy and daddy) if that really matters?

[uhoh1973]

I have lived about 1/3rd my life outside of the UK (Europe, Asia and North America). What I would say (esp as an adult) is if you don't know / learn the language it can be very tough. I can speak French, Spanish, Dutch and Norwegian all badly but not well enough to understand people at a party and this is after years of taking lessons so its pretty frustrating.
Its alot of fun and you see lots of cool things but unless you can integrate really well (be fluent in the language) most of your friends will be other expats (as they are also new and looking for friends). Its not intentional it just works out like that unless you are married to a native, speak the language etc. I turned down a job in Spain as my husband was worried he would be isolated as he doesn't speak any spanish.

When abroad I did miss things from the UK like TV, (if you think our TV is bad...), radio, being able to understand current affairs, understanding what your electricity bill says etc and it was a relief when I last came home to the UK after 8 years away. That said if I found a good place to go and a good job etc and my family would be happy I would be up for another adventure!

[BertieBotts]

I have a friend who has done the campervan thing and found it very good. I think there are also several blogs about that kind of lifestyle - obviously they give the instagram filtered view, though!

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

bourbonmadness I think the camper van plan is a really good one if you can afford that long out (or one of you can work from anywhere, if you are lucky enough to have that kind of job, while the other has main child responsibilities - I've met Brits and Germans working online in cafes on Italian campsites...)...

If you want to that do it now - my 8 year old has massively strong friendships and is happiest playing out with his mates, and my 10 year old would definitely be unhappy confined to the family unit and casual friendships (though on the other side of that she is still in daily and multiple times a day WhatsAp, email and landline phone call contact with 2 unrelated girls she met on a campsite holiday in Italy last June!)... I think my 5 yo would still be happyish with the family unit if we put effort into making it work, but the older 2 wouldn't... I'd say 6 or maybe 7 absolute maximum age for expecting kids to be properly content with family as their social circle for more than a week or two! Your window of opportunity is closing fast if your elder child is coming up to 6 IMO so get your skates on!

[KiwiJude]

bourbon google/watch The Good Life