Is being an expat the kiss of death for most relationships?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

All of our friends in Paris, who were expats (or one of the couple was, and the other French) have split up. Of my expat school gate friends from Brussels, they have all split up too. In nearly every case, the man ended it, and has moved on to a new, younger wife and a second family. The wife is either left with the kids, to struggle in a country that isn't "home" or heads back to the UK with the kids, and they hardly ever see their father. Our UK friends are not like this! It all seems a bit bizarre to me.

[ChristineDePisan]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience life

In a general sense, I'm quite certain that living as an expat is a "sink or swim" experience for most relationships - it either brings you together or tears you apart, even if the catalyst appears to be a younger model or whatever. In the same way that having a sticking plaster baby is a terrible idea, so is going to live in a foreign country unless your relationship is absolutely rock solid.

DH and I have been very lucky that living abroad has tightened our little family of four, but even so I do feel vulnerable that my status in the country is entirely dependent on him. If he leaves me, is sacked, something awful happens to him - tough, I've got three months to get out of the country. That is hard and does make you feel for those who really don't want to / shouldn't be with their other halves but are essentially trapped.

[Want2bSupermum]

I totally hear you the perfume lifesunjust. The other wives are so scared that they are next so don't help the ex wife out. I find it really sad that this happens but totally understand why.

When DH and I got married we got a prenup. It's recognized here in the U.S. and a couple of things I had added were that should we decide to divorce US law would apply and if outside of Denmark DH is required to continue the expat insurance coverage until formally agreed.

For all the negatives of living in America the major positive is that the courts are quite fair in divorce cases.

[simonettavespucci]

Exactly Bobo. Plus if you're both in a foreign country chances are the same things seem alien or stressful to you, whereas that's less likely to be the case if one of you is at home.

Digger Did you make any compromises or ground rules i.e. you have to go back to the UK for a certain number of weeks or you all speak English (or Mandarin) at home?

lifeisunjust I am truly sorry to hear that.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Lifesunjust - I had a friend who fled her abusive husband who was working for the British government. No-one wanted to know - she was told that "as she hadn't been at post long enough, she wasn't entitled to a trip home." There was no recognition of her husband's abuse. She arrived on my doorstep clutching two suitcases - that was all that she left the marriage with (although she did get a very good divorce lawyer, and got half his pension and half the house). The story ended well - she rebuilt her life in a third country, bought a flat, got a great job and has a new man. Her ex has liver problems due to his excessive drinking. I bumped into him in the street a few weeks ago, and by the look of him, I doubt he'll last another year. I told her this, and she said "Good job I got his pension, then, otherwise that would have just gone to waste."

[lifeisunjust]

WAnt2bsupermum - I just bought myself my first bottle of perfume in 2 years, only cost £30, but that meant an awful lot to me, as it's the first money I've spent on myself in 2 years. I still haven't got my hair cut, as it's cash only, just cannot justify it, but I was craving actually smelling decent again.

[lifeisunjust]

Wouldn't like to waste time thinking about if it is more prevalent when you're away from your home country, but hard to argue it's not harder when it happens when away from home.

The employer - UK government who did absolutely nothing to stop the abusive behaviour for the first 2 years. Be ashamed of UK government. You are forgotten, you have no means of support services that government has in place for its home staff, you are cast aside.

It is just as well we had no luxury lifestyle - as UK government employees abroad, you don't get the best package, they'd already withdrawn the international school and rent, due to a mean and nasty line manager who singled us out and placed us on a short term contract. But I know a mum here whose husband also did the mid life crisis routine of taking on a woman half his age. His employer refused to house the wife any more, the husband said he'd tell his employer to stop paying the school fees (30k per child) unless his wife moved out, so she did, leaving the kids behind with husband and lover was moved in to replace her. She took on a 1 bed flat, got no maintenance for herself, got herself a job at the school to feed herself and saw her kids still that way. I found that very cruel on the kids, the mum sacrificed living with her kids so they could remain at their school to do A levels.

[ToastedOrFresh]

Mrs S. - yup. I agree. I reckon to like America but then I go on holiday there and inevitably have a great time. However, that's when I'm reminded of the little things that irk me about the place and if I stayed to long it would feel increasingly foreign.

I did live and work there on a student exchange 'Camp America' programme back in 1988. I had a good time but was ready to come home after being in the states for a total of 14 weeks all together.

HeartsTrumpDiamonds - yeah, I agree with a pp remark about an expat being someone who intends to return to their home country rather than someone who will make their adopted country their home like an immigrant would.

Regarding emigrating/relocating to an English speaking country if you are born and raised in an English speaking country. Yes. It is emigrating. Don't be fooled into thinking that's it's easier than going to a non-English speaking country. It's still different. Just 'cause there's no language barrier it doesn't mean you will find it any easier making friends or getting a job.

There's still a resistance (suspicion) of foreigners no matter where they come from. OK, you can watch t.v./listen to the radio and understand what is being said. It's doesn't stop it being rubbish. You can over hear people talking in the street and not find it jarring i.e. you can, 'tune it out' as it's just part of the sound track of daily life.

You can buy a house or a car or clothes or food etc etc etc and know what is going on i.e. understand the process, ask questions etc.

So maybe integration, on the surface at least, is easier.

[Katsite]

lifeisunjust that sounds terrible! And I do think the person being left is often more vulnerable as no local support, difficulties in figuring out legal situation etc. as your situation shows. In terms of numbers, though, I do not think it is more prevalent amongst expats than in UK or the general average.

exexpat I started reading it and recommended it to my expat book club in Switzerland but I think it was a little too risque' for them. Was it any good?

[Want2bSupermum]

lifeisunjust I am so sorry this has happened to you. It is very hard on the DC, especially when they are used to a higher standard of living and all of a sudden their whole world falls apart.

With DH's employer I see quite a few of the spouses return back to the motherland with the kids and zero support from their ex. As they have been left high an dry in a country outside of the Western world, the laws are just not there to protect wives. One poor lady has finally been able to divorce her H after 5 years. She had to pay the legal costs because he remains in Russia with his new girlfriend. Meanwhile the wife is back in Denmark, in a tiny 3 bed apartment with 4 kids between 2 bedrooms. In Russia they lived in a mansion and in Denmark they had a really nice summer home in Bornholm in addition to their 6 bed mega house just outside Copenhagen that was easily worth GBP1.5-2 million.

As she had to divorce him to get assistance from the government she walked away from everything. What is worse is that DH's employer have done nothing to help her. When something similar happened to a family who worked for my Dad, the wife was taken care of. Sadly that doesn't happen anymore. I meet with the wife for coffee when back in Denmark. I got a gift of her favorite make up and perfume and she cried. She was about to run out of her final bottle and knew she couldn't afford to replace it. This sounds trivial to most but I really felt for her. It is very hard to come down in living standards.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Lifeisunjust - that is utterly shit. I'm so sorry.

[lifeisunjust]

Happened to me too, almost 20 years together. 4 kids. Not seen dad in 2.5 years. Left me in 24 hours. Emptied bank accounts, got through 3 times annual income in 18 months. Won't pay arrears of maintenance.

I haven't much of a family but I was lucky to have awesome friends where I am and was lucky to have already had a part time job. I now have 2 main jobs and pick up as much occasional work as possible, do around 50 hours average per week, 3 weeks off per year, work 5 / 7 days a week. Bloody hard on kids.

I feel lucky to be alive still. I have lived over 2 years in a bad dream.

I have survived and I am proud of my kids for surviving too. I smile when I hear of expat mums who don't work who complain of being unable to cope when their husbands are away yet again. I also pray they are never put in my position, as I know they will sink.

[MerdeAlor]

I have seen the same thing happen here, high income men leaving their wives and children for younger local women. Absolutely true that the deserted wives come off worst, particularly if they've given up their careers to folow their husbands job.
I've known women to tolerate terrible relationships because they are literally the dependant wife.

[Want2bSupermum]

So I was slammed on here a couple of years ago over my comments regarding the risk of men running off with younger women. I have seen it happen all too frequently. There is no way I would allow DH to take an overseas posting and not move with him. There are so many casualties and often it's the woman who really loses out because the divorce rules outside the UK are not as favourable to women as they are in the UK.

FWIW DH is high income and even though we are here in the US, there are far too many American girls who see Danish DH as a bloody nice meal ticket. DH, bless him doesn't see them coming half the time but he is getting much wiser now. I am working which helps a lot. The issues really start when one stays home and isn't able to immerse themselves into the new country's culture in the same way the working spouse is able to.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Absolutely agree, Hearts, re north/south divide. Poland is like my second home, when I moved there in the 80s, I just found a huge affinity with the country and people. I assumed Romania would be similar. It wasn't. I think where Poland looks to Germany, and the Scandinavian countries, so Romania looks south, to Turkey and Italy. In Poland, when the wall came down, there was great enthusiasm for getting things done quickly, and westernised. In Romania, I found the attitude was to sit back and let others do it for you, while you sat in the cafe and had another cigarette and cup of Nescafe.

[exexpat]

This thread makes me think of a book I just read: Hausfrau.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as a great read, but it certainly hits the mark in terms of some expat women's disconnection from the world around them.

[diggerdigsdogs]

Simon that's DH and I. Met in China, now in Aus where he is from. I don't love it, I would rather live in England. But this is where the job is so here we are. He is putting down roots again but I still feel like it's a temp posting. It's very hard, especially with ageing parents and the terrible sadness I feel with my DC not being near my parents.

Otoh I haven't lived full time in the UK since I was 10 so whilst no where but England is hOme I do feel that my home is where DH& DC are

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

OK maybe "funny" was the wrong word....

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

I have something funny to relate.

I lived in Budapest for just short of 3 years very soon after the wall came down or as they like to refer to it the "change in system". Hungary felt like a really foreign place, very very different to life in Canada or even Western Europe where I had spent a lot of time. I put this down to the east / west, communist / capitalist divide.

Then I spent quite a lot of time in Latvia and Lithuania and I felt so at home! I was so confused by this because surely L & L were every bit as foreign as Hungary when it came to time behind the iron curtain. But then I figured out that the reason that Hungary felt so foreign was because it is essentially a "southern" country whereas Canada and Latvia and Lithuania (and Finland, Scandinavia etc) are all Arctic / northern type countries. So the north/south divide was the thing that I noticed and that resonated with me, rather than the east/west divide. It was really weird.

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

MrsS all the Americans I know are completely flummoxed by the fact that not everyone is gagging to be American and not everyone wants to emigrate there immediately. Well maybe not ALL but certainly a lot of them. They are indoctrinated from a young age that the USA is the BEST country in the world and the only one with TRUE freedom. And the US Constitution is the most precious document ever written by humankind.

Try getting them to understand that (some) other countries do in fact have democracies and freedoms. It's quite funny to see them struggling with such a new and foreign concept

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

magi you're on! I'm going to hold you to it you do realise

Won't be until next summer at the earliest, so lots of time for planning and finding jobs and selling our house and all that crap, and for one million goodbye parties

Being Canadian even I find the US a strange and foreign place. I relate much much more to Europeans (I include Brits in that category).

[BoboChic]

Living in the country of one's partner presents other challenges, most notably a potential imbalance of power in favour of the citizen of the country of residence.

[simonettavespucci]

Interesting thread. I actually worry about it the other way round. DP and I met abroad, both working in the country we now live in. But it seems likely we will at some point have to move back to either his country or mine and I think that living in a place where one of us feels very at home and the other doesn't is likely to be more problematic than living here.

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

Very intersting discussion!
I can see this from so many diferent points of vue! As an immigrant in europe, as a naturalized citizen, as an expat within europe and also in the far east.
My answers would be quite different from each perspective!

[Sgtmajormummy]

Sorry about the stray question mark.

[Sgtmajormummy]

I've seen it happen to one close friend, left with a newborn and a toddler.
No comment.
But that's in more than 20 years, so probably less than the UK average.

I think independence is the key. If both partners have external interests or work and try to live outside the family "bubble", any internal problems can be put into perspective.
Integration and respect for the new country is also a key factor?