Der Lenz ist da (we hope) - the spring edition of the Germany/Austria thread

[LinzerTorte]

A thread for all those living in Germany or Austria or anyone who just wants to chat/ask a question about living in or visiting this part of the world - all welcome.

Previous thread here.

[Inaminutenow]

Hi all, looking for some views, if you don't mind.
I'm originally from Germany, but have lived in the UK for 15 years. Came over as a student, met my husband and didn't go back. All my family still live in the area where I grew up.
DH was diagnosed with cancer in Feb last year and sadly passed away 5 weeks ago. So now it's me, two little boys (7 and 4), and two stepchildren, but they are adults and their mum lives nearby. DH knew that I always fancied going back to Germany one day, and he would have come with me, probably once retired...
So it's early days anyway and I'm not going to rush into things, but my head is all over the place as to what to do for the best.
There's part of me that thinks that overall quality of life in Germany would be better. On the other hand I would miss some things about the UK, and I'm also worried that my views of living in Germany are somewhat influenced by nostalgia. Things / people there have obviously changed over the last 15 years, too.
I would really appreciate some views or advice on what to base my decision on, together with some info on what's good and bad about living in Germany these days. I've usually been over twice a year, but going for a holiday is never the same as actually living somewhere.
Many thanks!

[yegodsandlittlefishes]

Inaminutenow lovely to see you . I recognise your screen name from your Woolly Hugs thread in chat).
My own view is, as you have already moved from your original home country to make a home in the UK, you have done it once. You could go back to Germany and you would be fine. You might want to be somewhere where you can speak English sometimes and keep up with the old ties to UK.
It is generally easier for the children if they can move (within UK) before secondary school, but I don't know if that applies to the German education system too. I think you are wise not to rush into anything, if you can. (To give you all time to grieve, adjust and be supported where you are, and to give your children time to accept what has happened and not associate the move with being too soon, or to go to Germany while they are still not recovered.) Sorry, this is probably not the type of view you meant! I don't have personal experience, but from friends and family's experiences, a move back home is usually easier than the move out, for parents at least.

[LinzerTorte]

Inaminute So sorry to hear about your DH. It must be very hard to know what to do for the best re the move, especially with it being very early days - I suppose it partly depends on how settled you feel in the UK. I feel the same about life in Austria (where we are) as you do about Germany; we definitely have a better quality of life than we could afford in Britain, but there are inevitably things I miss about the UK. It depends too on what kind of things you miss - family and friends is the big one, but my friends are scattered all over the place so if I moved back, I'd virtually have to start from scratch. The shops are the other major thing I miss (probably good for my bank account, though!), although at least I never had the chance to get used to doing my food shopping online as I left the UK 15 years ago. Otherwise, it's fairly easy to find solutions to the other things I miss - TV, radio, books and magazines, etc. And there are always trips back to the UK, although it's not the same of course. I haven't lived in Germany for 13 years so am not too up-to-date on the good and bad points of living there, but hopefully someone with more recent experience will be along soon.

yegods A few weeks in Vienna in August sounds good; there's lots to see and as you'll be here for a while, it would be a good opportunity to see a bit more of the country as well (public transport is generally very good). As a tourist in Vienna, you could get by with just English - although making an effort to speak German is always appreciated, of course, and the more German you know, the easier it is (wrt reading signs etc; I've often felt quite lost when visiting Eastern European countries where I don't speak the language at all). Learning to say Grüß Gott whenever you enter a shop/cafe/anywhere really (from doctor's surgeries to lifts), and then Wiedersehen when you leave, is a good start.

Bit of a stressful start to the day here, with one scooter between the DDs and both of them wanting to go to school on it (it ended up with me driving to DD1's school to pick up the scooter so that DD2 could then take it to school). May have to go scooter shopping if this becomes a regular occurrence!

[MrTumblesBavarianFanbase]

MrsNuttella congratulations! A small gap will be lovely - maybe a bit more work in the early months, but much easier in the long term as you can do holidays/ days out/ clubs that suit both children, and won't have to wake a baby for the older one's KiGa run when he or she has only just fallen asleep at 7am after not sleeping all night, or drag a toddler along to drop off and pick an older child to all the clubs and playdates they "have" to do ... Unless, like me, you have a DC 3 when your older 2 are 5.5 and 3.5 (or in your case 5 and 4) I guess :o

Linzer that is an impressive social life!

Ambling sorry to hear about your niece, hope she was caught very early as you say and has the best possible chance of a full recovery.

C4ro glad the playdate went well. There aren't many families at our KiGa where both parents work, but somehow DS1 is attracted exclusively to friends with 2 working parents! :o DD was the opposite and had a large friendship circle with whom she had pretty much daily play arrangements, but not one of the mums worked! So it was an odd contrast with DS1, who is DC2, and starting the notes in bags thing! DD wants to go to REalschule - some children do change school after year 5 and then repeat year 5 at the higher level of school - guess she could, but she is very friend-focussed, and I have checked and discovered all the Realschule kids from our school go to the same Realschule, and all the Gymnasium kids to the same Gymnasium (they don't have to, but they are the only ones with a bus service to our villages :o ) so its likely she will have friends at both school and not want to drop down a year... She can do an extra year at the end of Realschule though - DH pointed out that even if she did an extra 2 years she wouldn't be noticeably "old" finishing school...

Inaminutenow I am very sorry for your loss. I do feel our quality of life is better in Germany, but I don't think you can really generalise about Germany as a whole can you? I don't think my experience of rural Bavaria would help somebody thinking of moving to Berlin or Saxony... or anywhere but rural Bavaria probably... so it would depend where in Germany you are thinking of moving to.
I do think once you have lived for years and years in a country other than your own, as an integrated member of the community married to a local rather than in an ex-pat situation especially, you (not just you, "one") will never feel totally at home back in your country of origin, but that it will always have a pull while you remain in your adopted country.
I don't know what I would do in your situation - I am not totally sure I would return to the UK as my in-laws are more hands on help with the kids, my own family would offer us a roof but are much less "comfortable" to be around and much less hands on. How close are you to your family and extended family? Would you be leaving very close, supportive friends in the UK? Its not an easy decision is it?
I guess the only advice would be to move before your eldest would need to go into Year 3 in the German system, in order to be settled in before year 4 when decisions about secondary are made, though the exact date for that depends on birthday and on the state you're in - some have August cut offs like the UK, but Bavaria has a 30th Sept cut off for each school year and is complicated by a lot of children being held back a year too... so your DC1 could be 8 or 9 going into Year 3. I assume your children speak German as a mother tongue and are bilingual?
Good luck with the decision, I agree you need to take at least several months deciding and weighing up the pros and cons though. If you are not working or taking some time off work to cope with your bereavement maybe you and your children could take an extended break of a couple of months near/ with your parents both for support and to see how the children like day to day life there when they aren't exactly "on holiday"... maybe most of the school summer holiday if you don't want to take them out of school?

[BertieBotts]

I think I officially don't understand German humour. Everyone thinks that ad is hilarious and I am just Even more so when I looked up the meaning of "geil(e)" and found it means horny nope... total WTF from me!

[MrsNutella]

Sorry Bertie geil also means cool. So you if your friend was wearing a cool or funny t-shirt you could say "geiles t-shirt!" To show how much you like it.
Also the bit with the sushi is a bit naughty. Because he calls the cat a "mushi" which is another word for "pussy" and can be used in a naughty way. I think he calls the woman a "geile mushi" which is also a not entirely polite way to refer to an attractive woman. DH had to explain some bits to me that I missed. But generally an older man dancing around the supermarket amused me anyway easy to please

mrT I like your positive spin on the two nutellachens being close together. It's sort of what I wanted but happened more ermmmmm successfully than we thought.

[BertieBotts]

Ahh! That is slightly less weird, then, I was wondering why a supermarket ad was capitalising on the word "horny", I'm not a prude but it seemed a bit much for an advert which is on all of the day!

[BertieBotts]

However, the google translate box offers only these translations:

geil-adjective
horny
geil, hornig, verhornt, hornartig, schwielig, scharf
randy
geil, scharf, spitz, heiß, ungehobelt
lecherous
geil, lüstern
rich
reich, prächtig, üppig, köstlich, reichhaltig, geil
wicked
böse, schlecht, arg, übel, gottlos, geil

I'm guessing its use as cool is more of a slang term? But google translate is usually pretty good even for slang, I find...

[MrsNutella]

bertie Leo is also pretty good for translating. Although I often use more than one thing for translating because the systems are only as good as the people putting the info in and some of the translations I've seen German - English make me go

[MrTumblesBavarianFanbase]

Geil means "awesome" according to my 6 yo DS :o

Nutella my older 2 are 24 months apart and such a 'unit' that DS2 feels like a whole different species - he's "only" 3.5 years younger than DS1 but the gap seems cavernous atm even though DS2 is confident, outgoing, physical and talkative - he's just so much littler and can't do everything thbig 2 can. Small gaps win easily for me, genuinely.

[MrsNutella]

Sorry he calls the lady a "super ushi" which was what I meant to write.

[LinzerTorte]

Bertie I think the "cool" meaning of geil is covered in your list by "wicked" (although that's then translated back into German more literally - geil certainly isn't a synonym for böse etc, though). It's now used much more commonly to mean cool rather than horny unless I'm mixing with the wrong people.

[LinzerTorte]

The site I use most frequently when I'm translating is Linguee, as it gives translations in context. As on Leo, though, some of them do have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[BertieBotts]

Haha, OK! Thanks for the insider info :)

[C4ro]

Linzer. In yet more overlapping-lives news, Jutta, the CM that takes DD after school has a daughter also with a Zieger-child in her class. Mind you, with 8 it’s a pretty likely shot! Oh dear to scooters-sequencing problems, I think I’d start a “whoever did gets the scooter today” rota but I'm mean!

Nutella. I’m very boring-looking but internally non-conformist so have a lot of time for odd-looking folks. I spent most of my 20s with red or blue hair, smoking various things and drinking too much. Hope you rent to someone that shakes up the locals but doesn’t have to pay for it with sniffing, huffing and shunning from the current residents.

InAMinuteNow. So sorry for your loss. It is a tough decision for you whether to go back to Germany or not. The positives and negatives depend on your situation; are you settled/ happy; do you plan to try and keep both cultural heritages for your children (I’m assuming they are UK/DE); where is your support network/ family best option; what job you want/ need to do and where is best for that; quality of life and access to hobbies; etc. After longer away, it is actually very common for it to be a hard culture-shock to go home- as so much has changed while you’ve been away both there and in you. There will be things Germany is better for but you’ll probably notice each and every thing you think the UK better for until you adjust back. It took me 9-12 months to stop actively hating on Austria after we moved here from Holland and I’m still a bit ambivalent about the place on some days. Strangely I don’t miss the UK or feel any pull to go back there! No rush though, my DH was moved Germany-US and back again between ages 11 – 14 and he feels it helped his English, Maths and Music schooling greatly although there were curriculum mismatchs/ gaps on both moves, they can be covered with a bit of effort.

MrTumbles. I’m pleased to report kleine-David has been guilted into bringing back Kates freund book! It went to Natalie and came back very fast (she was definitely waiting on it!) and is now out again. She now has more mates than me.

Trip to Steyr on Wednesday was interesting. I’m having surgery on my right ear on 23 June. Possibly a week in hospital (can’t believe it, one night maximum I think). Couple of weeks off work in any case and 3-6 weeks no-fly which could be a pain. We had to go and see the urlis as they live in Steyr and we’d be shot if it was later found we were in the area and didn’t go and see them.

My parents are in France at the moment skiing for the first time at 66+. So far no broken bones and I think my non-sporty Dad really likes it. Tres amusant as the froggies would have it.

[WoollyHooligan]

Inaminutenow So sorry for your loss. I don't have much to add to the good advice the others have posted, but I think my main thought at the moment (as far as I can imagine it) would be 'where is my support network right now?'.

Hello yegods! I'm in Germany so not much help, but a few weeks in the summer in Austria sounds like a dream :)


How's the scooter situation, Linzer? Have you broken and ordered a second scooter yet?

Sorry to hear about your niece, Ambling. it's great that she's getting treatment so quickly. That must be such a hard thing to deal with.

Hello to MrTumbles c4ro & Bertie

Massive congratulations, Nutella! What lovely news :)
I haven't had change to look at the link yet but was sniggering away at the thought of your DH ordering sehr geile Cappucinos!

DH is preparing me a Kochsalzloesung zum Inhalieren, which sounds awful, quite frankly, but I'm having a few sinus problems on the back of a really vicious cold and can't take anything, as I'm finally pregnant with mini-hooligan #2. It's still very early and we've only really told close family so far.

[platanos]

woolyhooligan congratulations! There was something in the water after all! Hope the cold and sinuses clear and that you feel better again soon.

C4ro Hope the surgery goes well and that you can plan your work around it. You sound really busy, hope you found the Freundschaftsbuch.

Inaminutenow I am very sorry to hear about your loss. That is a really hard decision to take, especially at the moment. I miss bits of the countries where I have previously lived, but am sure I am happiest here. There are things that "annoy me" but they also annoy the locals, or at least those locals I get on with. I guess it is finding a place where your quality of life, and that of your children, is good. And you are able to deal with the annoying bits. Is there anything that you think would annoy you if you lived in Germany?

MrsNutella congratulations to you too! Are you feeling okay? Do you say geil? I can't imagine myself using it, my DH really dislikes it, he still sees it as meaning horny, and thinks it is vulgar. Our dds say it though.

While on the subject of language - interesting that Faschingsmuffel is so common where you are mrtumbles. I came across it last year, I mentioned it at work, saying I was one. My Austrian colleagues understood it but had not heard it before. I then asked my German teacher and she confirmed it is not used much here, rather seen as a creative combination of words. Might be a German/Austrian difference?

And has anyone heard of "fluent in three months" (Benny Lewis)? I heard an interview with him, and he sounded very impressive, but remain skeptical.

yegodswhere is dh based? Vienna can get rather hot in summer (I really like it!), but lots to do. Great pools and you can go swimming in a bit of the Danube. And the entrance fees are quite reasonable. Here's a list of them: www.wien.gv.at/freizeit/baeder/uebersicht/sommerbaeder/. How old are your children?

Hello to everyone else. Have an exciting day planned - off to the laundrette as the washing machine is broken. boo. Lucikly ds will be at a party and the dds are old enough to go to the park alone, so might get some reading time. And we have a babysitter coming this afternoon. DH and I were going to go to the cinema, we had a film and place for a quick dinner lined up but dh thinks the weather is too nice to be indoors, especially as winter is returning tomorrow. Boo again. I see his point, but was looking forward to going to the cinema for the first time in 11.5 years. Oh well, surely I can wait a few more months!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend!

[LinzerTorte]

Beautiful sunny day here today - and I'm stuck indoors working. Will try to get most of my work done tomorrow as the weather's supposed to be taking a turn for the worse, but DH is out shopping and the DC are all next door so I thought I'd make the most of a few minutes of peace and quiet.

platanos What a shame about the film; what were you planning on going to see? It must be an age thing re geil, as DH also says he doesn't use it because it sounds vulgar - but some of his colleagues (who are virtually all younger than him) do. He'd never heard of Faschingsmuffel, but did say it would be a very good word to describe me. (Maybe the word isn't commonly used in Austria because the concept of someone not being into Fasching is quite unthinkable? )

Woolly Congratulations, what exciting news - two thread babies to look forward to now. I also forget how completely non-anonymous it is on here and realised after my post a few days ago that anyone would be able to find out the name of the street where I live after a quick google. Although quite what anyone would do with that information, I'm not sure!

C4ro I'm convinced that the six degrees of separation thing is only two in this area. At most. In another spooky coincidence, I was thinking the other day - after you'd mentioned friendship books - that the DC haven't had any to fill in for ages, then guess whose friendship book DS brought home from school on Thursday? (Dr Z's son's.) Does your CM's DD go to school in Baden? I think the six older ones are all at the school DD2 will be going to in September.

[LinzerTorte]

Forgot to say that yes, I've ordered a new scooter for DD2. It was ok for them to share when DD1 hardly ever used it, but now that her friend next door (who also has a Z DC in her class, C4ro ) has started going on her scooter rather than catching the bus, DD1 wants hers back so that they can carry on going to school together.

[yegodsandlittlefishes]

platanos DCs are 14 and 15. DD2 is learning German at school (just GCSE) but not DD1, nor me. I'm tempted to invite DD2's friend along who is bilingual! (But she will probably be in Germany for the summer). DH is right in Vienna, he has a flat very near the office and can walk there. He only has the lease for a few months though, so he might not be in the same flat when we all visit, but will be working for most of the time. (All assuming the job and him keep getting on.) Thank you for telling me about the swimming, I love swimming and DD2 was just talking about wanting to swim. So far we have discovered the Spanish Riding School and DD2 will want to visit that and see the main event. It looks like a lovely place to walk around too.

LinzerTorte great work with the scooter. I seem to remember my DCs at that age, after getting a scooter each, then both decided to throw down their scooters and ask to be carried a km from home! Thankfully I had some carrots chocolate in my pocket.

[AmblingAlong]

Just got a half hour break between driving dc to sport clubs to say congratulations to woolly, great news!

Meant to ask Linzer, is ds enjoying fencing? Have you had to fork out for equipment or clothing of any kind? Just wondering as the club dd has joined offers it too and she'd maybe be interested.

Platanos, what a pain having to go to the laundrette, hope you get your washing machine fixed or replaced soon. Did you make it to the cinema in the end?

Inaminute, I'm sorry to hear about your DH. It must be very hard to know what to do about the move. I tried moving back to the UK for a short period when things weren't going well at all in Germany but my dc were more German than I realised and the UK had changed so much that I also felt out of place. BUT, it was good to try it and sort of prove to myself that the grass isn't always greener iyswim! I think if you always fancied going back to Germany your dc are at a good age to settle into the school system now too.

Hope everyone had a good weekend. Today I don't seem to have got anything done, busy all day but everything is still only half done. Suppose that's what you get when you have too many different jobs going at once! Better go and take ds to his club as he has a match tonight, then shopping before I pick dd up half way across town and tomorrow and Wednesday the bus drivers are on strike so I'll have dh to drive to work.

[MrTumblesBavarianFanbase]

Yay, congratulations Woolly!


How annoying about the washing machine Plantanos! I am drowning in laundry atm - I think I need an enormous laundrette washer and dryer at home! If I had to go to the launderette I think I'd need to use a wheelbarrow... Did you go to the cinema? I've been quite often since having kids - but always to see 0 rated animations in German! Yay! Frozen was quite good actually, and I liked Epic... :o

[platanos]

Mrtumbles I lied - I have been to see children's films. I was not that taken with Frozen, but it has won all sorts of awards so I clearly have no taste. And I fell asleep in Mr Peabody and Shermann!

I actually enjoyed my trip to the laundrette. Put the clothes in an ikea bag and trolley (classy, me!) and walked there. The dc were with friends, so I sat there reading my book in peace and quiet. Bliss! And the washing machine spoke to me - in French. I am waiting for the service team (was going to write service man, but maybe it is a woman?) to come and have a look at it. Currently praying to the washing machine gods that it can be fixed.

We didn't make it to the cinema, we (or rather I) wanted to see Grand Budapest Hotel. But we had a great evening wandering around, chatting and had dinner. We were both relaxed and it was just great to spend time together.

ambling hope you managed to get something done, and not too feel too frazzled. It sounds like you were too busy being a taxi service.

yegods is your dh enjoying it here then? I've forgotten; is it a permanent move? I am sure you will enjoy your time here! And you can get by with English, no problem.

linzer did the second scooter arrive?

oooh service team is here.....

[LinzerTorte]

platanos I'm never rarely taken with the children's films we go to see either. I took my iPod along to one screening, but sadly it was too noisy for me to listen to podcasts instead. No sign of the second scooter yet; we haven't actually needed it yet as DD1 has been going on the bus again since the weather took a turn for the worse. Our new greenhouse arrived yesterday, though (the one destroyed by the wind luckily turned out to be covered by our insurance); it's amazing what you can buy through the post nowadays. Any progress on the washing machine - have you heard from your landlady?

Ambling DS still seems to be enjoying fencing, although he didn't want to go on Monday as neither of his friends went. The club provides all the equipment they need, although they can also buy their own; DS said yesterday he wants to have his own sword, or whatever it's called (something like floret in German). Aha, have just googled and Florett is a foil. Another useful word to add to my vocabulary.

yegods From what I've heard, it can be quite difficult (and expensive) to get tickets for the Spanish Riding School - although you can go and watch the morning exercises (accompanied by music). It was really busy when we went and I must admit the DC had had enough after about half an hour so we didn't stay for the whole two hours, but none of us are particularly into horses (we went to make use of a free ticket); a friend took her DD who is, and she loved it apparently.

Not sure if anyone remembers my tooth saga, when I was trying to decide whether to have a ceramic inlay for the princely sum of €600. The dentist said again yesterday that I should decide by my next appointment in six months whether I wanted an inlay or a white filling; I asked whether I could have an amalgam filling and she said yes, and got out her drill. I just managed to stop her in time to ask for an injection (she was a bit and said it was only a Kleinigkeit). Considering the amount of drilling she did and the fact that I still found it a bit painful, I was very glad that I did have the injection (and as it still hurt a bit, she didn't charge me). I've managed to give birth twice without pain relief, but have a very low pain threshold as far as my teeth are concerned!

[AmblingAlong]

Linzer I feel exactly the same about having pain relief at the dentist and compared to giving birth without it or having my tooth drilled I'd take the birth every time! I even get scared when they do that cold test on the teeth at check-ups in cae I have a sensitive one.

platanos hope they've fixed your machine. Good that you could walk to the laundrette. Ours is miles away and parking spaces are rare.

Another day of taxiing here as the public transport is down (on strike). It's also very dangerous on the roads as half the population is cycling to work/school and alot of them don't seem to know the road rules.
Ds has just turned up from school, another lesson cancelled. Happening Alot at the moment.

Dd has a really horrid dry cough, hurts me just to hear her coughing. Bravely she's gone in today for a biology test and tomorrow is Schulfrei so she can stay in bed.