DH wants to move to Singapore for his work - I don't!

[Allboxedin]

He works as a programmer and says all the jobs in his sector are in London, New York or Singapore. He is fed up of London so keeps on about moving to Singapore.
TBH I am getting pretty fed up and have tried to make him see that it won't be eay to just up and go. We have one dd of 2 years and I am due again in 3 weeks.
The problem is that he never seems to settle and I just don't think he will there either. He has never been there and knows nothing about it.

I know it sounds abit silly but my husband is actually black and we have mixed race children, One of my main concerns is how they would be accepted over there.

Before I met DH I lived and worked in Korea for 3 years and so I have a feel of Asian life/work/culture ethics, although it's not Singapore and I have not been specifically there, it worries me it could be similar in many ways.
I used to travel a lot with my work so that doesn't bother me but then I was single. We are about to have our second now and it's a whole different story.

I honestly think he should go over there by himself for a few weeks to get a feel of things and then make a decision but he thinks we can all just up and leave and it will all be hunky dory - HELP!!

So sorry for the long rant. Any perspective would be helpful.

[balimoon]

Hi,

Im not sure you if you have moved. i just stumbled upon this thread and thought id respond. I was in the same situation as you, however my kids are older 9 and 13. My husband woke up one day and decided to move out to Singapore. He was worried about the UK economy, hated the British climate and wanted a new change totally. I hated the whole idea, we had never visited, had no family there however he's got a few work colleagues which i imagine prompted his move.
I sadly left all i knew to move out here after so much persuasion. I must honestly say to you do your research thoroughly!
having lived here a few months i'd say it's a beautiful, clean and safe city.

My children love it but miss our big home as we have had to down size to a condo my husband is not on an expat package but on fairly good salary. We had a very good standard of living.
School fees has worked out to be a lot more expensive than we paid in the Uk having to add the expense of the school bus.

We do not own a car as husband realised it's too expensive here. Though he was convinced having a car here was totally unnecessary, i beg to differ. We had a very decent car in the UK. Having to commute by taxi sounds cheap as it can often start at 4.00SGD to 25.00SGD depending on where you commute to. Having to do your grocery shopping you would find you would need to do a fair bit of taxi commuting weekly. I have had to total it up monthly i realise i'm spending roughly 600SGD monthly in the last few months i've been here.
However trains and buses are very clean and reliable. Depends on how much you love the heat and humidity of commuting to and from public transport.

My children are in a British school with excellent facilities. Health care is paid by husbands work.

I have come to realise it's very, very expensive living here especially the grocery shopping and accommodation. Beautiful malls exist here in abundance with many of your UK stores, though with very high prices.

I have found no issue with colour as my kids are of afro/caribbean descent and mix quite easily. My DH has also settled into work easily.

Yes the heat and humidity sap all my energy . However i've never liked the heat.

Do your research but i do look forward to moving back to the UK.

You might enjoy the adventure if not on a tight budget.

[sozzledchops]

Agree with desnatada. Unless you are going for the experience and the adventure (which doesn't sound you are and you have said you have a good standard of living in London) then you could be quite miserable if you are on the lower end of living compared to other expats from similar background. Generally people live it up, know we did and travel a lots around the region.

[desnatada]

Allboxedin. Before your husband decides to relocate you all to Singapore, I think that he needs to really research the employment market here. For a start you say that your husband is a programmer. From what I understand here in Singapore, many of the programmers/ IT workers brought in to work here hail from the Philippines and from India. Aside from having the relevant skills, they are hired because their expectations in terms of salary and benefits are a lot lower than someone from the USA, UK or similar. These people often leave any family they have at home to come work here for a few years, so they do not expect medical coverage for family, schooling or large housing allowances. This makes hiring them very attractive to employers here in Singapore. I worked in one of the largest IT Consultancies here in Singapore before I had kids and I only ever saw expatraites on the full package of benefits at very senior levels. The best way would be for him to secure work before he packs up and leaves. You may, as others have suggested, look at the expat singapore forum. I have seen a number of threads on there by people working in IT, looking to move to Singapore.

One of the reasons why we are leaving Singapore is due to the high costs of living here which just seem to keep rising and rising so please make sure that you do your research very thoroughly. Singapore is a great place to live for a while if you can have a great standard of living and save money. It can be a miserable place if you are on a tight budget. The other reason we are leaving is the heat. Whilst it is nice to live somewhere hot, the relentless 35-40 degrees with 90% humidity saps you of energy and after 13 years in Asia, I really have had enough of it.

[Allboxedin]

Thanks begony, will have a read of that - might have a look at pg 2 also if I have time
Thanks laptop. Will keep you in mind :)

[laptopwieldingharpy]

Good luck with everything. I was a property agent in Sg so don't hesitate to shout if you need specific info.

[begonyabampot]

emm... wouldn't bother reading by page 2 of that thread as it goes off at a tangent and starts debating the charms if Finnish men.

[begonyabampot]

living costs

[begonyabampot]

do you have any idea yet of what your husbands wage will be and if schools/rent/health etc will be provided? Have a look at Expatsingapore message board - do a search and there are many threads about the cost of living.

[Allboxedin]

Thanks laptop, tbh we live fairly comfortably here in London, by no means like kings but we are not really struggling for money and DH is very opposed to any borrowing.
I have a frined who lives with her husband in Hong Kong and she has lived in Singapore also and said she wishes she could go back there to live. She seems very positive about her experience there.

[laptopwieldingharpy]

Agree thouroughly with drcrab.
There are expat families at vary different ends of the spectrum.
Its a very well planned city with lots of free entertainment , public parks and gardens, council run classes and activities.
Local coop supermarkets are as well stocked as posher expat versions. TransPort is extremely safe and efficient.
All things considered, on an equivLent budget i still say quality of life is better.

I suffer from psoriasis and its all gone. The skin can breath as always naked!As for asthma, you would need a good gp to keep things in check. Its common to suffer an adjustement phase as the mould spores in air con systems can aggravate allergies. A good local gp consultation is $25. A top paed fir expats about $80.

[Allboxedin]

Thanks DrCrab, you are right, I should have a google about salaries.

[drcrab]

Re salaries doesn't it depend on what is average in your industry? You can easily find out things like that from industry salary surveys. A white Irish friend moved out there first on an IT job. He's now started an MBA with Wharton in Singapore. He's funding that himself.

[drcrab]

Just wanted to add that HDB although is gov built and therefore can be classed like 'council housing' over here, most of it is far from the stereotypical council estate we have over here. Many of them are available for rent by foreigners and there are a fair few that are within the 'zone 1-2' like in London. You don't have to live like the expats of yesteryear with 6figure salaries, chauffeur, club memberships etc. Many Singaporeans have domestic help and they live in with you and usually have 1-2 days off a month. All for something like £2-300/month. My father's Neighbour is British - his mother was out there visiting him and the family when we were there earlier this year; I have white British friends who live 'out in the sticks' and commute to the city on the mrt.

They are by no means slumming it.

[Allboxedin]

Out of interest how do salaries compare with those here in the UK?

[Allboxedin]

begony, we have both raised the issue of weather for our dd1 as she suffers with asthma,allergies and eczema and generally reall feels the heat. I know air con is very expensive too!

I am not entirely sure what the package would consist of. Obviously I would not be able to contribute for a little while either being due our second child.

[Allboxedin]

Thanks NY, good to hear different experiences.

[begonyabampot]

No way if £50,000 is to cover everything or will you get all expenses paid for? Western expats in Singapore general live well, if you are at the bottom of the scale it could be quite miserable. Also, if you really like wide open spaces and gardens then you might struggle. The size, high rise and constant biz can really get to you after a while. Even with houses, gardens are usually non existant or very small unless you have mega mulla. Also the weather isn't so garden friendly unless it's really shady. TBH with very young children the heat can be overwhelming, so hot when you want to take them out through the day though the early evenings are lovely, no wonder so many people use the air con shopping malls.

Schools - you can go local for very little cost and more and more expats are doing this.

Cars are very expensive but I would have hated to get about with a baby and toddler on public transport for ease and for safety reasons.

You dad's situation could make you being so far away very miserable.

This all sounds negative even though I enjoyed living in Singapore but I was up for the adventure from the start and we were on a very generous expat package and a good wage.

There really doesn't seem to be enough good reasons for you to move from what you've said. At the least you should go out for a look first before you decide to go for it. (though I didn't)

[NYCorLondon]

I lived in Singapore for a couple of years in the late 90s. My flatmate was African-American and she did talk about the stares and unintentionally offensive comments she got. There wasn't really any mean racism but quite a bit of ignorance and curiosity because there aren't that many black people, although the population is mostly non-white and very diverse.

Things may be different now though as that was more than ten years ago.

[laptopwieldingharpy]

Race is only an issue for singaporeans with reference to their own strictly segregated communities. "all is well" for the rest which is all "caucasian" if you ask them!

Now, life is expensive by any standard at he moment. Its now ahead of hong kong which is telling. Rents are Really sky high in hk but all the rest is now more expensive in singapore.
You do need an expat package to take care of school, medical cover and various deposits, moving costs etc....

It is a lovely place with a very young family. Multicltural ( in a strangely shallow way), child friendly, very user friendly city.
Tax effective, reliable affordable child care. Great holidays on your doorstep. Just do your math.

[acatcalledbob]

Yes, nursery starts at 18 months generally and childcare starts at 6 weeks (maternity leave is dismal but improving)

Tax info is http://iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04_ektid1190.aspx.

I assume you would get an expat package on top of 50k? You should have rent, school, health, car (or transport allowance), travel home, relocation costs etc included.

I don't think 50k will get you very far.... Look at rental property here but for a 3-4 bed home without a pool in a residential (not top end) area, you are probably looking at GBP 3k / month. Car rental is about GBP 700 / month, a flight home and back for all of you will be around GBP 3k. There are cheaper options if you would consider living in an HDB (council) flat and sending kids to local schools (Singaporeans get priority on these).... but it's unusual. I don't know any companies that send people to Singapore on GBP 50k and without an expat package....

[Allboxedin]

Ok, would they have a kindergarden type thing before main school then?
I guess our children would still have a few years before we had to think about mainstream school.
DH thinks the tax is around 8 %?
He thinks he would be on a similar salary of around 50k. How easy/difficult would it be to live off that?

[acatcalledbob]

Children start school here by 6 (you have to do 12 full years by age 18 to get into Uni). DD1 is at a private British school but there are all sorts (French, Swiss, Dutch, Australian, American, Canadian). She's doing the usual British curriculum but is learning Mandarin too. Her school is good academically and in terms of facilities - all kids swim every week etc.

There doesn't seem to be a youth culture here like in the UK - there are no hoodies, no-one seems to "customize" their school uniform, underage drinking exists I'm sure but you never see teens drinking in public. Obviously there are no illegal drugs here and it's very very safe.

There is much more respect for elders and parents and among Singaporeans, children tend to live with their parents until they get married (and often afterwards too).

[Allboxedin]

Thankyou both, I wrote a reply and lost it!
I like the idea of having affordable childcare is nice. As you know it's near impossible here in London unless you have a huge income.
I imagine the children start school earlier too ?
Do you find the education system better? (I have nightmares about sending my kids to state school here where we are!!)
I would also imagine that there is more respect for elders and parents over there. Would you say that's the case?

[flimflammery]

You wouldn't get stared at, pointed at and laughed at here, there are so many expats, including Westerners, Singaporeans don't look twice. My kids do get tourists wanting to take their photo if we go to touristy places because they're gorgeous blonde/curly haired but that's tourists from other countries like China and Korea. Singaporeans are far too sophisticated to do that.

Being away from family, especially if they're very ill, is perhaps the hardest thing about being here. Only you can decide if you're prepared to do that.

On the plus side, you say you're due in a few weeks - you can get very affordable 'help' here with housework and childcare, so having a toddler and a baby to look after would be considerably less exhausting!

[acatcalledbob]

There are TEFL teachers here - look at the British Council website or www.mumsatwork.net for other flexible / PT jobs.  Everyone speaks English more or less but there is still call for EFL for locals and expats.  I think you can work a certain number of hours on your residency permit before having to apply for your own employment pass.

We go home once a year in the summer.  We went home for our first Xmas but the price of the flights, traveling at Xmas with over-excited, jet lagged kids, taking presents home wrapped and bringing them back unwrapped and buying winter clothes for the kids to wear for 2 weeks was enough hell for use never to want to do that again. 

All expats have family elsewhere that has been through precarious health, bereavement, weddings, births etc and we all miss out to a certain extent .... but that's the expat lifestyle.  You do what you can and we can be home in 12 hours in an emergency.

We moved here for the lifestyle and opportunity for our kids - we all have a very good quality of life and every privilege (much more so than we could have had in the UK) while we try to keep the kids grounded and realistic.  We lived far from grandparents when we were in the UK so would have seen them every 4-6 weeks - as it is, we see them for 3 weeks in the summer, then they come here for 3 weeks.

I think you both need to do a standard look-see with or without the kids (relocation companies will take you round schools, condos, houses etc) before you make a decision, it's what most people do.